Mens LP

[rain]

The pashionless frigid program stirs you up?

You state this as if it was fact, when it's actually just your opinion — and one not shared by anyone in the arena audience who immediately leapt to their feet in applause at the program's conclusion. You may not find Chan to be a passionate skater, but that doesn't make it true. He's not a skater that tends to grimace, applaud himself during the program or wave his arms about in a crude display of angst, but what he does do beautifully is express the music through his whole body in the choreographed movements and with the quality of his blade on the ice. The relationship of his blade to ice, and what it adds to his programs, is really something that has to be seen live. I'm sorry if you have not had that chance.

[valentine]

Absolutely shocked how mean spirited people are on this forum! People just rip these athletes apart. Pretty disturbing,,,,

[Ravensque]

You state this as if it was fact, when it's actually just your opinion — and one not shared by anyone in the arena audience who immediately leapt to their feet in applause at the program's conclusion. You may not find Chan to be a passionate skater, but that doesn't make it true. He's not a skater that tends to grimace, applaud himself during the program or wave his arms about in a crude display of angst, but what he does do beautifully is express the music through his whole body in the choreographed movements and with the quality of his blade on the ice. The relationship of his blade to ice, and what it adds to his programs, is really something that has to be seen live. I'm sorry if you have not had that chance.

I totally agree with you. I couldn't have said it any better. He is an awsome performer, using his whole body to emote.

[let`s talk]

You state this as if it was fact, when it's actually just your opinion — and one not shared by anyone in the arena audience who immediately leapt to their feet in applause at the program's conclusion. You may not find Chan to be a passionate skater, but that doesn't make it true. He's not a skater that tends to grimace, applaud himself during the program or wave his arms about in a crude display of angst, but what he does do beautifully is express the music through his whole body in the choreographed movements and with the quality of his blade on the ice. The relationship of his blade to ice, and what it adds to his programs, is really something that has to be seen live. I'm sorry if you have not had that chance.

You guys are fun. You tell me that I state things as if they are facts and at the same time you state that I haven't seen Chan live as if it is a fact. I assure you if you state this or that as if it is fact, when it's actually just your opinion, that doesn't make it true. Hope that helps.
Chan doesn't have ANY feeling of music beat and his Phantom wasn't there. That was specially noticable after watching Europeans. While all current Euro guys, unlike the previous generations, with such skating no doubt won't medal at Worlds, they are still keeping that feeling of artistism and beauty on the ice established by the golden age skaters in Europe, like Yag, Kulik, Urmanov, Lambiel, Plush and even Joubert at his peak time- all current Euro top group guys' programs have meanings, except the woodden KVDP. Chan's interpretation equals to Alban's one. But while Alban got what he deserved, Chan got a joke: 9-10! He is the best-made product of the current judging system.

[Bluebonnet]

Chan doesn't have ANY feeling of music beat and his Phantom wasn't there. That was specially noticable after watching Europeans. While all current Euro guys, unlike the previous generations, with such skating no doubt won't medal at Worlds, they are still keeping that feeling of artistism and beauty on the ice established by the golden age skaters in Europe, like Yag, Kulik, Urmanov, Lambiel, Plush and even Joubert at his peak time- all current Euro top group guys' programs have meanings, except the woodden KVDP. Chan's interpretation equals to Alban's one. But while Alban got what he deserved, Chan got a joke: 9-10! He is the best-made product of the current judging system.

This whole paragraph of yours is highly, totally, indisputably subjective. It's your own opinion. Yours alone. You are not the only one who knows about music. The 8 judges and many, many, many skating fans don't think so. So there!

[ImaginaryPogue]

Bluebonnet, I'd suggest you give up. let's talk is just irritated that Chan got a quad (remember, this was let's talk's number one complaint last year was guys not doing quads. In fact, when asked what'll happen in men's figure skating this year, he said

It will bring one more girlish champion with no quads.

Gotta give him credit though - he's sticking to his principled Chan-hate regardless of the facts (if you can find a post from him before Chan had the quad criticizing his artistry, I'd be impressed). It's takes a huge amount of tenacity to do that.

Anyone who says Chan doesn't have any "feeling for music beat" after watching some of those moves (see the spread eagle, perfectly timed to the flourish; or his second footwork sequence which matches the melodrama of the music)... well, I think we operate in entirely different sonorous universes.

[Mrs. P]

I don't oppose your entire point in your email, Mrs. P. With your defending Shawn Sawyer ardently, I have no problem. No defending Reynolds from you even if DiManno wrote about him longer with more harsh words. Well, everyone has their favorites.

I just wonder why you have to bring Chan's score 197 and 4 falls at SC here. You may agree with 'some' you say? Is it relevant when you try to reason why Sawyer is a great skater and a good choice for worlds?

Sorry I have not seen Sawyer's performances at 2011 Nats (I will watch... I am sure he was great) but have been seeing Chan's over and over. If anyone argues that Chan's score was given because he is always a political favorite and says again the muliple falls in the past, well, I feel a little bothered. Now it seems so trivial.

I don't understand what DiManno means by mentioning 'promoting favourites over those who’ve earned their ranking on the ice.' Maybe my lack of English. It seems like I don't resent her column as much as some people would... I have definitely read more biased, absurd articles than this. Don't mean DiManno's is well written.

Yes Shawn is one of my new favorites, but I felt that DiManno really picked on Sawyer a little to much considering that he did the program he did.

Personally, I don't care one way one way or another about the 197, as he did an amazing program, but I just wanted to point out to her that not all her views were totally off base, that many agree with the political nature of Skate Canada.

It's clear there is a belief (and I can agree to some point) that Skate Canada clearly has their favorites and the push for their favorites well before they even do a competition. That is what DiManno is talking about.

But then she ties Shawn Sawyer with this point, which is silly, because later in the column she points out that Skate Canada wanted him to retire! And clearly Shawn earned his spot with a nearly clean program. (Although on second read, she might have been referring to the push of Reynolds by SC.)

That point made, I didn't think her words about Reynolds were that harsh. In fact if you read between the lines, you can tell that she felt Reynolds should have received the spot instead of Sawyer. Then again she just referrs to giving it to someone of the "future." But then she complains that no one fits in that spot. So really her column just doesn't make any sense!

[fan1961]

[QUOTE=Mrs. P;543645]I e-mailed Ms. Dimanno and wrote the following response:

I 1.) Finally many question why Skate Canada has deemed Crone and Poirier as its No. 1 team (of course while Virtue and Moir are out) over Weaver and Poje despite how either team does.

OMG - now the C/P bashing has moved over to the men's event? Skate Canada has deemed Crone and Poirier as its No. 1 team because they scored higher than W/P at Nationals (yet again...) .... oh ya... they scored higher than W/P at Skate America (guess those judges have deemed C/P to be the "better team") ... oh ya.... they scored higher than W/P at the Grand Prix final (guess those judges have also deemed C/P to be the "better team") What exactly does C/P have to do? Oh ya... nothing ... just keep on doing what they are doing.... not whine and complain... just get more experienced, get stronger, keep getting better... look forward ...being a good winner and not a sore loser, being a good role model for the others in the sport, is just a bonus....

[SkateFiguring]

Patrick LP from Radio Canada for those who can't stand Josee's or anybody's commentary and who don't understand French, and for those who know French and want to hear real gushing.

For the latter category, I have also Patrick's 2009 WC Sp commented by Eurosport's French commentators. So many think Canadian commentators are OTT but nobody gushes like the French! These were blown away by Patrick and also outraged by his scores, emphasizing they were French but Chan should have won over Joubert. A little international perspective.

[Mrs. P]

[QUOTE=fan1961;545274]

I e-mailed Ms. Dimanno and wrote the following response:

I 1.) Finally many question why Skate Canada has deemed Crone and Poirier as its No. 1 team (of course while Virtue and Moir are out) over Weaver and Poje despite how either team does.

OMG - now the C/P bashing has moved over to the men's event? Skate Canada has deemed Crone and Poirier as its No. 1 team because they scored higher than W/P at Nationals (yet again...) .... oh ya... they scored higher than W/P at Skate America (guess those judges have deemed C/P to be the "better team") ... oh ya.... they scored higher than W/P at the Grand Prix final (guess those judges have also deemed C/P to be the "better team") What exactly does C/P have to do? Oh ya... nothing ... just keep on doing what they are doing.... not whine and complain... just get more experienced, get stronger, keep getting better... look forward ...being a good winner and not a sore loser, being a good role model for the others in the sport, is just a bonus....

I'm not saying whether they deserve it or not. I'm saying this is an example of people questioning Skate Canada (the federation). Actually I really like their Beatles program. But I know that some people question it. That's all I was saying.

Sheesh. I probably was better not mentioning it given people's sensitivity here.

BTW she never responded to my e-mail nor did she correct her error.

[let`s talk]

This whole paragraph of yours is highly, totally, indisputably subjective. It's your own opinion. Yours alone. You are not the only one who knows about music. The 8 judges and many, many, many skating fans don't think so. So there!

As well as it is only your opinion that it is only my opinion and nobody else's. The whole statement is nonsense because it's a priori impossible to know for sure. Still, you claim you do.

I probably didn't express myself clearly or you didn't get it. My point is programs like Plush's tango or Contesti's SP you can skate only with THAT music. If you change the music, you will have to change the program. Chan's program can be skated with not Phantom only, change the music and he will skate the same stuff, because there is nothing unique and speacial a la Phantom there. None. Therefore his marks for presentation and interpretation are just lol. Fact, whether you like it or not.

Bluebonnet, I'd suggest you give up. let's talk is just irritated that Chan got a quad (remember, this was let's talk's number one complaint last year was guys not doing quads. In fact, when asked what'll happen in men's figure skating this year, he said
Gotta give him credit though - he's sticking to his principled Chan-hate regardless of the facts (if you can find a post from him before Chan had the quad criticizing his artistry, I'd be impressed). It's takes a huge amount of tenacity to do that.

Anyone who says Chan doesn't have any "feeling for music beat" after watching some of those moves (see the spread eagle, perfectly timed to the flourish; or his second footwork sequence which matches the melodrama of the music)... well, I think we operate in entirely different sonorous universes.

Great thanks to Plush and his team who stirred up the whole quad controversy, second thanks to Dai who tried to perform a quad in Worlds 2010 in spite of all sh... talks around. Chan just had to deal with that this season. Last season I didn't comment about him much because there was nothing to comment, except a badmouthing drama queen who poohed all his competitors last season and this season too.
The only thing that entertains me is just you who keep calling me "he" as if you know that for sure.

[SkateFiguring]

A few on this board can insist and repeat ad nauseum that Patrick lacks passion, has no connection with the audience, etc etc. Here's a letter from someone who was there:

Chan a magic man

(Re: Patrick Chan's skate leaves spectators speechless) I was incredibly fortunate to have witnessed this performance live last night. It was like nothing I have ever seen in skating. The whole crowd was on their feet well before he was even finished.

Patrick was magic! I was embarrassed by the tears trickling down my face until I was in the ladies room afterward and realized that I was just one of many who had been crying. Well done Patrick you are truly a Canadian hero!

What is amazing is that he moved people to tears with just his skating, without a sad and human interest back story which often accompanies tear inducing programs. Just his pure artistry.

I wonder who are really passionless, heartless and can't relate.

[jettasian]

Well considering Josee and PJ Kwong also had teary eyes...yeah....must be awesome to have watched it live.

[tstars]

Here is the CBC version of Chan's FS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E49QK_Fto5M

[happy hollow]

I am baffled as to why anyone who can't stand Patrick Chan would even bother to go on to a Canadian Nationals men's lp thread! If you don't like him why are you spending so much of your time bashing him??? Kind of pathetic. Anyway, while I have often been brought to tears by our fantastic Canadian skaters, watching Shawn Sawyer and Patrick Chan skate the other night, on TV not live, brought me to tears again. Bravo! Those two guys make it so easy to love figure skating!!