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Ladies FS

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
ouch, Frank sounds unfriendly (putting it mildly I know).

Anyone want to bet we'll see him fire her like he did Tim (IIRC he was not so nice that last season before he traded Tim to Audrey W. and began working in earnest with Evan).
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Both rachel and mirai did mistakes and honestly their skate quality difference is like night and day and I dont understand how that performance of Rachel got more points. Probably Urs and technical things that I dont know.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Both rachel and mirai did mistakes and honestly their skate quality difference is like night and day and I dont understand how that performance of Rachel got more points. Probably Urs and technical things that I dont know.

Rachael doubled the first lutz, URed the 3Toe.
Mirai URed the second 3lutz, botched a spin. Gifted with the UR on the 2A-2T. That 2A should be called a 1A.

Rachael's base is higher, so it's not that hard to see why Rachael got more points, considering her mistakes are minors and less costly compare to Mirai's. If you must have an UR call, you rather it's something easy like a 3T instead of a 3Z.

I take Rachael's skating is day and Mirai's night? :)
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
It is highly inappropriate for that grumpy old man to bash his highly successful student in public, repeatedly.

Such boorish treatment of a teenager, or anybody, does nothing to improve the situation.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
ouch, Frank sounds unfriendly (putting it mildly I know).

Anyone want to bet we'll see him fire her like he did Tim (IIRC he was not so nice that last season before he traded Tim to Audrey W. and began working in earnest with Evan).

The same thought occurred to me but I didn't even want to think about it. Personally, I think this time around it would be a horrible public relations move for Frank if it came out that he dumped her but maybe he doesn't care at this point.

Both rachel and mirai did mistakes and honestly their skate quality difference is like night and day and I dont understand how that performance of Rachel got more points. Probably Urs and technical things that I dont know.

There was a poster who explained it well. It wasn't URs - both Mira and Rachael got one UR each. It came down to the difficulty of their programs. Rachael had a higher difficulty level so her mistakes were less costly. Also, Mirai got no credit for her botched spin.
 

ivy

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Yeah - Andrea Joyce was bugging me too.

Mirai is my fave of the top ladies, and it wasn't so much the technical problems that I found disappointing, it was her lack of attack, of focus, of enthusiasm. I don't think this is the best program for her either, and when she slipped it didn't hold her up. Half way through I was a little bored - and that's not good for a fan.

If Frank fires her it might be for the best in the long run. Maybe she needs to take a little more ownership of her skating.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I take Rachael's skating is day and Mirai's night? :)
:)
Dont get me wrong, we all have our favorites and when they falter we need something to blame.:laugh: I really wanted Mirai to go to worlds, last year worlds I was mesmerized.
Mirai is my fav lady along with Mao, it has been long since last time I was excited for ladies, so I think for me her skating it is like a bright day, but this is just me so dont take it into heart, I m a not an important person;)

Thanx for explaining me the mark differences btw!
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Clearly Carroll is not happy with Nagasu- perhaps the two should part ways. Nagasu may need a coach that is more supportive and willing to encourage her through rough times- but is also not afraid to slap the hammer down when necessary. To me, it sounds like Carroll does the latter and not enough of the former.

OR- maybe Carroll is right, and is telling it like it is. In which case, this might indeed be the slap that Nagasu needs to pull it together. Sometimes it really takes a major disappointment to evaluate where you are and make the necessary adjustments. Missing the world team should do it.

The problem with Nagasu that night was not the mistakes...IMO, it's that she gave up. She was nervous...fine, but once she made a mistake that was it. You just cannot give up on a performance like that. With Cop it's not over if you fall. You can still make up points here and there. THAT is why she was not on the world team. Flatt's performance was very beatable.

ETA: I agree with Hersh that we probably need that third ladies spot more than ever now. It enables an additional skater to gain Worlds experience. With our field, that could be invaluable. Come on Alyssa and Rachel!
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
The problem with Nagasu that night was not the mistakes...IMO, it's that she gave up. She was nervous...fine, but once she made a mistake that was it. You just cannot give up on a performance like that. With Cop it's not over if you fall. You can still make up points here and there. THAT is why she was not on the world team. Flatt's performance was very beatable.

That's why Carroll was so annoyed. Mirai went out there and skated mechanically, with none of her usual speed and attack, and her performance was devoid of the charm and lightness that has marked Mirai's better efforts. To be blunt, she was boring and lifeless. Yes, she made a few mistakes, but it was her attitude that made Carroll angry.

Mirai did not skate like a champion, and as long as she continues to freeze up the way she did at Nationals this year, she will never be a champion again. Talent is not enough. Mirai has to want to win, and she has to skate as if she wanted to win.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
A much more serious question, though, is whether Nagasu WANTS to continue competing- to put in the effort necessary to get to the top. The passion, the drive, the will to do well comes not from your coach but from YOU.

I think there will be a coaching change from her this off-season.
 
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krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
I think there will be a coaching change from her this off-season.

Wow, are you serious? As far as I remember, most of Carroll's students left him only after medaling at least once under his guidance. It's very unusual for one of his top students to leave him without getting a Worlds or an Olympic medal.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Totally inexcusable for Carroll to put his and Mirai's business in the street.

did I miss something huge - or is it the 'mooning" comment? Frank has been known to be harsh/straightforward critic for a long time - I'm not understanding the "his and Mirai's business" part.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Rachael doubled the first lutz, URed the 3Toe.
Mirai URed the second 3lutz, botched a spin. Gifted with the UR on the 2A-2T. That 2A should be called a 1A.

Rachael's base is higher, so it's not that hard to see why Rachael got more points, considering her mistakes are minors and less costly compare to Mirai's. If you must have an UR call, you rather it's something easy like a 3T instead of a 3Z.

Yes, also MIrai's mistakes were more diruptive. She got a major gift with + GOE on the first combo despite just holding onto the landing of the lutz. The problems were made worse by a program which has bad music cuts and does not bring out Mirai's musical, lyrical side. Bad job by the choreographer. She did not perform that program one bit where Rachael actually did perform hers, causing one to forget about her mistakes.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
if Mirai freezes in the long or cant focus to practice hard etc, have her a sport psychologist , i dont know, still talking about her in Hersh or yelling at her when her problem seems unsolved and repetitive, I dont see the educational purpose of this action.
It is like I m afraid of heights and you get me to a skyscraper and yell at me until i jump. I wont jump this way, i ll probably throw you off the building.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Yeah -
If Frank fires her it might be for the best in the long run. Maybe she needs to take a little more ownership of her skating.

I can't imagine that Frank would "fire" her. She is the most talented US lady, even if she suffers from nerves. She is his best hope to get back to the Olympics, if that is what he wants. He is 70, however, so an end to the relationship because of retirement is a possibility.

I recall that Frank was somewhat critical of Michelle after the '98 Olympics--not because she didn't perform well, but because he said she didn't have the same spark she had at Nationals. I thought that was uncalled for and always wondered if it didn't cause permanent damage to his relationship with Michelle and the Kwans.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
From Frank's totally unnecessary but juicy details about Mirai's training habits, and Mirai saying that she got distracted in the SP while miming flower-picking, I think Mirai may a mild case of ADHD. Douse her with Adderall and see how it goes.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
did I miss something huge - or is it the 'mooning" comment? Frank has been known to be harsh/straightforward critic for a long time - I'm not understanding the "his and Mirai's business" part.

Mirai's parents entered into a contract with Frank Carroll to provide instruction to their daughter. It is utterly unprofessional of the coach publicly to embarrass his student with snide comments to the press. If he is displeased with his student, let him be displeased in private. How does Phil Hersh enter into the equation?
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
From Frank's totally unnecessary but juicy details about Mirai's training habits, and Mirai saying that she got distracted in the SP while miming flower-picking, I think Mirai may a mild case of ADHD. Douse her with Adderall and see how it goes.

I hope and I do think you're joking, or else when, not if, you are next distracted, you should be deemed Adderall deficient and be doused appropriately.

Mathman said:
Mirai's parents entered into a contract with Frank Carroll to provide instruction to their daughter. It is utterly unprofessional of the coach publicly to embarrass his student with snide comments to the press. If he is displeased with his student, let him be displeased in private. How does Phil Hersh enter into the equation?

Exactly.
 
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