Senior Men's LP (starts at 4pm EST)

pangtongfan said:

The U.S are going to regret leaving Abbott and Nagasu at home in favor of people like Flatt and Miner, I gaurantee it.

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I don't think so. The U.S. team may not bring home the bacon, but I do not think the United States will have any regrets for sending them.

I know I won't.

given how freaking nice all of these guys have been to each other, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the top three collectively said: hey, let's give these other great skaters another chance this year. Of course, maybe it didn't play out that way, just saying, they - in the press conferences and posted twitters or social networking comments - have been so respectful to each other.

On another topic - am I the only one that (besides being so appreciative of Jeremy's sportsmanship) thinks more was 'wrong' with Jeremy than nerves; in the short I wondered if he was still uncomfortable in the new boots as his 3 lutz landing was super tight/jumpy- or unsmoothe; some of his footwork lacked the glide he typically has; then he got a level 2 (and I would still like to understand what happened with that); then the long program - not only the fall on the lutz and doulbed plan 3 toe - again, the "lack" of effortless looking edges....anyway: just wondering.

Finally: am I the only one thought Dornbaush (sp?) was ridiculously composed and mature in press conference? That Ryan was too sweet for words for saying worst winning free skate ever. That Miner was beyond adorable (and mature/composed) to say: jeremy is a great skater and he never even thought about worlds. I'm really impressed with these guys. Sad that there were some anticipated missing great skates, but happy by how well many did AND how sportsman/people like these men are. I MIGHT miss Evan and Johnny's skating....but loved these guys tonight a lot!

Mathman said:

We have been keeping Dornbush and Miner under wraps all year. Heh heh. Chan and Takahashi have no notion of their existence. Heh heh. Just as we planned all along. Heh heh.

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hahahah.

as far as i'm concerned, what's the official word before the competition? top 3 goes? then top 3 should go.

as far as a point difference of .16 not being big enough, if this were a race and the difference between the timed runs were... less than a second, less than a tenth of a second, say, in downhill skiing, a swimming race... yeah i know it's not the same, no style points in downhill skiing but the rules are the rules. you didn't beat him by enough so he gets your worlds spot? i would find that difficult to accept if i were miner.

and mathman, that should say chan and kozuka have no idea what the US is bringing. i'm always going to root for daisuke, even if he's competing in the mr. best beard in the universe competition or a reality show, but the writing is on the wall IMO.

Serious Business said:

While I find Ross Miner dreadfully dull

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Really? He was my favorite of the 'New Seniors'

Top three from the deepest field of the world is no laughing matter!!! They have done themselves proud. But what makes a laughing matter is the US's national team selection process, so seemingly fair yet so apparently stupid. Heehee, Heh heh, hwahaha...heeheehaahaa...

skfan said:

and mathman, that should say chan and kozuka have no idea what the US is bringing. i'm always going to root for daisuke, even if he's competing in the mr. best beard in the universe competition or a reality show, but the writing is on the wall IMO.

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How about the best hair in the universe?

http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/original700/daisuke-takahashi-2009-12-25-6-41-34.jpg

best hair, best everything. you can multiply your alissa love x 10 and you'll get my love for daiskuke ;p

skfan said:

i'm always going to root for daisuke, even if he's competing in the mr. best beard in the universe competition or a reality show, but the writing is on the wall IMO.

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Your opinion has always been obvious.

There are more country fans than there are skating fans.

Nagasu and Abbott did themselves in. I'm sorry, but as much as I love them both (they are our best all-around skaters, IMO), this is sport. They are both quite similar in the sense that they have mental "demons" that they need to conquer. It's not like their disappointing performances were unprecedented. To give them a spot on the world team when this problem is not just a one-time thing but a regular occurrence would send them the wrong message. If they are destined to become great competitors (not just great skaters), they will take this as a wake-up call.

(Note: I've looked at the protocols for both segments of the competition and I've substituted my own marks for that of the judges. While after having done so it is my opinion that the judges did indeed give Flatt higher marks than she deserved (and I have Nagasu just barely beating out Flatt overall), there is no question that Nagasu once again tensed up and failed to deliver in the FS.)

Mathman said:

I don't think so. The U.S. team may not bring home the bacon, but I do not the United States will have any regrets for sending them.

I know I won't.

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MM, I've appreciated your comments this afternoon regarding building domestic programs vs. international dominance.

The fact is there is no guarantees of success at the World Championships. You can build the best team ever basic on past comeptitions and meltdowns could still happen.

Take Miki Ando. Sixth at Japanese nationals but sent to the 2006 Olympics because of her strong competition up to that point. (Top 10 Worlds finish, medalist at her both GP events, 4th place a GPF, reigning Japanese champion; and an undefeated 2003-2004 junior season.) We all know what happened there.

I think Bradley will receive lower PCS for sure. (More in the 5s and 6s. I will agree that his ones at nationals were quite generous...). But I think all three have the potential to finish in the top 10. They won't beat Taka/Oda/Kozu or Chan, but places 5-10 is still up for grabs. I don't think anyone has a lock on those spots. 6th and 7th is the magic number to keep the three spots. We shall see.

Joesitz said:

Your opinion has always been obvious.

There are more country fans than there are skating fans.

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i don't get what you mean here. where does country enter into the discussion?

jaylee said:

Men on U.S. World Junior Team are Max Aaron, Jason Brown, Keegan Messing...alternates are Alex Zahradnicek, Steven Evans, Philip Warren

http://twitter.com/#!/USFigureSkating/status/31877486690172928

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That's unbelieveable. Zahradnicek had two beautiful skates including a 1st place in his SP beating Aaron.

Mrs. P said:

I think Bradley will receive lower PCS for sure. (More in the 5s and 6s. I will agree that his ones at nationals were quite generous...). But I think all three have the potential to finish in the top 10. They won't beat Taka/Oda/Kozu or Chan, but places 5-10 is still up for grabs. I don't think anyone has a lock on those spots. 6th and 7th is the magic number to keep the three spots. We shall see.

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And this men's event is a perfect reminder that lot's of unexpected things can happen when skates and ice are involved. Miner and Dornbush will again be thought of as underdogs and benefit from of lack of others expectations - who knows what they'll accomplish

ivy said:

And this men's event is a perfect reminder that lot's of unexpected things can happen when skates and ice are involved. Miner and Dornbush will again be thought of as underdogs and benefit from of lack of others expectations - who knows what they'll accomplish

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How true that is! I'm ok with Dornbush, he's been on a seasonal roll winning in all the comps that he was in. Miner, I'm not sure about, but his US Nats was super. Jeremy and Ryan are like roller coasters riding up and down so I wont miss them in Tokyo.

As to the Tokyo boys, I find Dai much too animated this season and subject to errors; Takahito is just too sweet and bland despite his good tech; and Nobu is the more complete skater and will probably podium. I think if Ryan hits, he will also podium; if Dornbush repeats his US Nats he will be very close to Takahito. The 3 places will be safe for the USFS.

Ryan, however will have to face another audience pleaser with Florent. Will a quad toe do it?
Richard will face Joubert and its the question of a newbie v. old timer.

So, I find myself looking very forward to worlds, but also to next year. In that regard, I'm starting to hope that lot's of skaters - men and women - "pull a Miner," by which I mean open with footwork. It was unusual - although I had this feeling that SOMEONE else once did this and I so enjoyed it too. I liked it. Can't wait to see this program again.

wallylutz said:

Well, Abbott and Rippon did get the 3 spots last year. So yes, a case can be made he can do it again if he has already done it. Personally, I think sending Miner over Abbott for 0.16 point, the difference of a single toe, is not a wise decision. Russians would never do that, it's illogical.

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No, it was Evan and Adam who secured the 3 spots.
As much as I love Jeremy, he is inconsistant. Sending him to the worlds doesn't guarranty anything, sadly....

ETA: Wait, maybe I'm confused. I'll go check about it again.
ETA2: Okay, I was wrong. It was 2009 when Evan and Brandon secured 3 spots. Jeremy was 11th. Sorry about that.
In 2010, Jeremy was 5th and Adam was 6th. And Ryan was 18th... Oh well.

For USa benefit it was not sure Abott would do well or Mirai or whoever, maybe they would feel more anxious if the spots were given to them regardless of their results. Statistically world newbies that have nothing to lose and time is not running out do much better than the more experienced headcases.
I just wanted to see Mirai and Jeremy there cause they have my fav programs of the season.

Mixed feelings cause it is not a common rule for all ISU members and that is the annoying part. Each federation uses its own rules which makes the whole sport a little less serious if from each country the skaters qualify at worlds differently. From a point of view skating has weird rules, when previous good results dont count much, the national champions are left out the next season, kinda of unsecure. You can win all season and dont go to worlds because of a bad national night. On the other hand I never liked that Nakano was dumbed twice in Olympics because GPF or whatever rules applied and she was not sent.

There's no way to build the perfect team without a time machine.

emma said:

given how freaking nice all of these guys have been to each other, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the top three collectively said: hey, let's give these other great skaters another chance this year. Of course, maybe it didn't play out that way, just saying, they - in the press conferences and posted twitters or social networking comments - have been so respectful to each other.

On another topic - am I the only one that (besides being so appreciative of Jeremy's sportsmanship) thinks more was 'wrong' with Jeremy than nerves; in the short I wondered if he was still uncomfortable in the new boots as his 3 lutz landing was super tight/jumpy- or unsmoothe; some of his footwork lacked the glide he typically has; then he got a level 2 (and I would still like to understand what happened with that); then the long program - not only the fall on the lutz and doulbed plan 3 toe - again, the "lack" of effortless looking edges....anyway: just wondering.

Finally: am I the only one thought Dornbaush (sp?) was ridiculously composed and mature in press conference? That Ryan was too sweet for words for saying worst winning free skate ever. That Miner was beyond adorable (and mature/composed) to say: jeremy is a great skater and he never even thought about worlds. I'm really impressed with these guys. Sad that there were some anticipated missing great skates, but happy by how well many did AND how sportsman/people like these men are. I MIGHT miss Evan and Johnny's skating....but loved these guys tonight a lot!

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I think both Jeremy and Mirai were not nearly as well trained as they were last year. Jeremy, it's probably purely because of his boot problem. He couldn't get his quad back. Who knows what else he wasn't training as well as he had in the past.
Mirai - the two months off with an injury but judging from Frank Carroll's, well, very frank comments to Phil Hersh, there was more to it than that and she wasn't training like he wanted her to. He said she didn't really get her act together until three weeks ago.

Maybe Jeremy tricked himself into thinking he could make the world team even without good skates. He talked a lot about how he didn't really plan to peak at nationals. Too bad. He should have planned to win.

Both Jeremy and Mirai were not stellar all season long and then they came undone at nationals. Not a good omen for how they would do at worlds. Mind you, this is coming from a fan. I just hope next year goes better for them. Four Continents too.

Just back from the arena.

My favorite skate of the night was Ross Miner's. He was more fluid, more in touch with the music than anyone else, and if you've ever watched Casablanca, he told the whole story beautifully. His jumps were super high too! This is his first nationals. I'm so happy for him. Everything was so, so smooth! He was a little underscored on the PCS side, IMO, and I'd have him over Dornbush in the long. His long spread eagle sequence, culminating in a 3/2/2 was fabulous In no way should he have been left off the world team (and I'm so glad he's going).

My second favorite skate belonged to Jason Brown, who is only 16 and has braces and a pony tail. He reminds me of Robert Wagenhoffer. He had so many unique and interesting ways of doing things. I'm so glad that they're sending him to Jr. Worlds. In The Edge folder there is a thread about What Happened to These Old Jumps? Jason Brown and his choreographer Rohene Ward found them. Jason warms up doing a run of 3 walleys in a row down the rink midline. He opened his skate with a walley 3Lz3T. He's super flexible and does all kind of interesting positions, whatever he's doing.

He does a great combination spin with a hydroblade.

I also really liked Armin's program.

I don't know whether Dornbush is usually fast, but today his footwork was Slo o o w. Everything was very competent, but for me, he didn't hold my interest in the way Jason and Ross did. From his skate I learned that Sherlock Holmes drinks rather than using morphine. Who knew .

Jeremy had a horrible skate. That is why his tech content was 66.91.

Ryan IMO did way too many quads and 3A's warming up. I'm so glad he was able to win, even if his performance wasn't what he would have wanted. Amazing, he landed 2 really good and 1 pretty good 3A between the SP and LP. This is a
guy who was having trouble with his 2A last year. Congratulations Ryan.