Senior Men's LP (starts at 4pm EST) | Page 26 | Golden Skate

Senior Men's LP (starts at 4pm EST)

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
That's unbelieveable. Zahradnicek had two beautiful skates including a 1st place in his SP beating Aaron.

Who do you think Zahradnicek should bump? Aaron is the U.S. junior champion and the other two finished 8th and 9th against senior competition, even though they are still juniors internationally.
 

gold12345

Medalist
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Yay, the USFS made the fair decision according their own established rules. I will never understand sports fans who want rules changed retroactively to benefit their favorites.

I don't even have a Mens favorite. I'm fine with them following the rules, I just think the rules should change if they are not "fair" enough to include recent international competitions in selecting international teams. I'm sure Miner will be a fine US representative, but Abbott was just .19 behind him after a rough day and has a much stronger track record. A country should always look to try to do the best they possibly can at Worlds.

Ross competed pretty well on the Grand Prix this fall.

NHK Trophy SP: Abbott- 74.62 (2nd) Miner- 64.85 (7th)
LP: Abbott- 143.57 (3rd) Miner- 121.77 (10th)
Total: Abbott- 218.19 (3rd) Miner 186.62 (9th)

Cup of Russia- Abbott: SP- 77.61 (2nd) LP-139.60 (4th)
Total- 217.21 (3rd)

Cup of China- Miner: SP- 67.10 (6th) LP- 130.03 (8th)
Total- 197.13 (7th)

Abbott outscored Miner by 31.57 points at NHK Trophy. Their second GPs were different and therefore difficult to compare, but Abbott still outscored Miner by 20 points. Abbott was 5th in the World last season and regularly medals on the GP. In fact, he might have even had an outside shot at a World medal this year. To me, it is quite obvious which skater has the potential to do better at Worlds. I understand the USFS rules are not set up to care about such things, but I wish they would care.
 

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
given how freaking nice all of these guys have been to each other, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the top three collectively said: hey, let's give these other great skaters another chance this year. Of course, maybe it didn't play out that way, just saying, they - in the press conferences and posted twitters or social networking comments - have been so respectful to each other.

On another topic - am I the only one that (besides being so appreciative of Jeremy's sportsmanship) thinks more was 'wrong' with Jeremy than nerves; in the short I wondered if he was still uncomfortable in the new boots as his 3 lutz landing was super tight/jumpy- or unsmoothe; some of his footwork lacked the glide he typically has; then he got a level 2 (and I would still like to understand what happened with that); then the long program - not only the fall on the lutz and doulbed plan 3 toe - again, the "lack" of effortless looking edges....anyway: just wondering.

Finally: am I the only one thought Dornbaush (sp?) was ridiculously composed and mature in press conference? That Ryan was too sweet for words for saying worst winning free skate ever. That Miner was beyond adorable (and mature/composed) to say: jeremy is a great skater and he never even thought about worlds. I'm really impressed with these guys. Sad that there were some anticipated missing great skates, but happy by how well many did AND how sportsman/people like these men are. I MIGHT miss Evan and Johnny's skating....but loved these guys tonight a lot!

Skaters getting along well and being respectful of eath other are the main consequences of the US federation being clear and consistent of their selection process. Psychologically, I know the easiest way to foster conflict among athletes are for the authority figure to favor one athlete over the others (this is how sibling conflict occurs - a parental favoritism).

There is an argument to be made between the Russian selection process vs. the US way.

However, I do commend for the us federation to be fair and consistent. Knowing their federation to be fair, skaters can focus all their attention to their own skating skills. Hence, when the "battle" is over, skaters can afford to be gracious and respectful to his fellow skaters.

This is such a contrast with a terrible conflict between Plushenko and Yagudin. Remember, Yagudin was heartbroken and left Mishin because his "daddy figure" Mishin favored Plushenko.

Besides, US men have historically "done alright" with the US federation's selection process. As ImaginaryPogue said, we cannot go to the future and select best skaters.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
I'm fine with them following the rules, I just think the rules should change if they are not "fair" enough to include recent international competitions in selecting international teams.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeesh, changing the rules retroactively is the very definition of unfair.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I don't think he's saying change the rules now. He's saying they should change (ie, future). That's no different than changing the value of the quad.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Just back from the arena.

My favorite skate of the night was Ross Miner's. He was more fluid, more in touch with the music than anyone else, and if you've ever watched Casablanca, he told the whole story beautifully. His jumps were super high too! This is his first nationals. I'm so happy for him. Everything was so, so smooth! He was a little underscored on the PCS side, IMO, and I'd have him over Dornbush in the long. His long spread eagle sequence, culminating in a 3/2/2 was fabulous :love: In no way should he have been left off the world team (and I'm so glad he's going).

My second favorite skate belonged to Jason Brown, who is only 16 and has braces and a pony tail. He reminds me of Robert Wagenhoffer. He had so many unique and interesting ways of doing things. I'm so glad that they're sending him to Jr. Worlds. In The Edge folder there is a thread about What Happened to These Old Jumps? Jason Brown and his choreographer Rohene Ward found them. Jason warms up doing a run of 3 walleys in a row down the rink midline. He opened his skate with a walley 3Lz3T. He's super flexible and does all kind of interesting positions, whatever he's doing.

He does a great combination spin with a hydroblade.

I also really liked Armin's program.

I don't know whether Dornbush is usually fast, but today his footwork was Slo o o w. Everything was very competent, but for me, he didn't hold my interest in the way Jason and Ross did. From his skate I learned that Sherlock Holmes drinks rather than using morphine. Who knew ;).

Jeremy had a horrible skate. That is why his tech content was 66.91.

Ryan IMO did way too many quads and 3A's warming up. I'm so glad he was able to win, even if his performance wasn't what he would have wanted. Amazing, he landed 2 really good and 1 pretty good 3A between the SP and LP. This is a
guy who was having trouble with his 2A last year. Congratulations Ryan.

So great to hear/read your first hand commentary. I look forward to much, much more once you rest a bit! I really liked Miner's program and can't wait to see it again as it took me - or he took me - by surprise and I wasn't quite paying the attention I should. I quite liked Ricky too...but am unable to compare at this moment.

It is great to hear that Rohene Ward is very involved with skating still - not surprised that he would find interesting moves or jumps. Hope he is well and I look forward to much more of Jason (and many others like Armin) in the future. Ok, I'll just add: i love how armin moves; maybe he needs more speed and etc. but love his line and use of the body, especially neck, shoulders, arms to fingers with deep knees at the same time.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
...the US federation being clear and consistent of their selection process.

In my opinion, this is the argument that carries all before it. Clear. Consistent.

That's no different than changing the value of the quad.

Speaking of which, the quad enthusiasts should be very pleased with how this competition turned out. The only one of the top guys who did a quad, won. Pure and simple.

Ryan did the two worst quads in the history of the sport and came away with 18.54 points. :)
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Skaters getting along well and being respectful of eath other are the main consequences of the US federation being clear and consistent of their selection process. Psychologically, I know the easiest way to foster conflict among athletes are for the authority figure to favor one athlete over the others (this is how sibling conflict occurs - a parental favoritism).

There is an argument to be made between the Russian selection process vs. the US way.

However, I do commend for the us federation to be fair and consistent. Knowing their federation to be fair, skaters can focus all their attention to their own skating skills. Hence, when the "battle" is over, skaters can afford to be gracious and respectful to his fellow skaters.

This is such a contrast with a terrible conflict between Plushenko and Yagudin. Remember, Yagudin was heartbroken and left Mishin because his "daddy figure" Mishin favored Plushenko.

Besides, US men have historically "done alright" with the US federation's selection process. As ImaginaryPogue said, we cannot go to the future and select best skaters.

Sorry, but I can't help it - Tonya Harding anyone? ;)
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Ah, I haven't had chance to read through this long thread yet. But where is the outrage on this newly crowned 2 fall champion?! Double standard?:rolleye:
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Bluebonnet, there were two massive stepouts, but neither were considered falls.

No, but the 2nd error is a -3 in my book. Step out on the first jump, loss of flow in between jumps, and insecure landing / no flow on the 2nd jump, so except the mandatory deduction it was as bad as a fall.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Just back from the arena.

My favorite skate of the night was Ross Miner's. He was more fluid, more in touch with the music than anyone else, and if you've ever watched Casablanca, he told the whole story beautifully. His jumps were super high too! This is his first nationals. I'm so happy for him. Everything was so, so smooth! He was a little underscored on the PCS side, IMO, and I'd have him over Dornbush in the long. His long spread eagle sequence, culminating in a 3/2/2 was fabulous :love: In no way should he have been left off the world team (and I'm so glad he's going).

My second favorite skate belonged to Jason Brown, who is only 16 and has braces and a pony tail. He reminds me of Robert Wagenhoffer. He had so many unique and interesting ways of doing things. I'm so glad that they're sending him to Jr. Worlds. In The Edge folder there is a thread about What Happened to These Old Jumps? Jason Brown and his choreographer Rohene Ward found them. Jason warms up doing a run of 3 walleys in a row down the rink midline. He opened his skate with a walley 3Lz3T. He's super flexible and does all kind of interesting positions, whatever he's doing.

He does a great combination spin with a hydroblade.

I also really liked Armin's program.

I don't know whether Dornbush is usually fast, but today his footwork was Slo o o w. Everything was very competent, but for me, he didn't hold my interest in the way Jason and Ross did. From his skate I learned that Sherlock Holmes drinks rather than using morphine. Who knew ;).

Jeremy had a horrible skate. That is why his tech content was 66.91.

Ryan IMO did way too many quads and 3A's warming up. I'm so glad he was able to win, even if his performance wasn't what he would have wanted. Amazing, he landed 2 really good and 1 pretty good 3A between the SP and LP. This is a
guy who was having trouble with his 2A last year. Congratulations Ryan.

Doris, thanks so much for this on the ground report! I will definitely revisit Ross Miner and Jason Brown's skates. My feed kept freezing so it took a lot to pay attention and I probably didn't try hard enough for the skaters that weren't on my radar. I barely remember Jason's skate.

Also, interesting to hear about Ryan doing to many quads and 3 a warming up. That's probably true.

At the news conference, Ryan said it was probably the worst looking champion skate in a while but that he was proud of it anyway because he fought and fought. Which he did and he is rightfully proud about having landed his 3axels despite the mistakes on the quads.
 

ivy

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Just back from the arena.

My favorite skate of the night was Ross Miner's. He was more fluid, more in touch with the music than anyone else, and if you've ever watched Casablanca, he told the whole story beautifully. His jumps were super high too! This is his first nationals. I'm so happy for him. Everything was so, so smooth! He was a little underscored on the PCS side, IMO, and I'd have him over Dornbush in the long. His long spread eagle sequence, culminating in a 3/2/2 was fabulous :love: In no way should he have been left off the world team (and I'm so glad he's going).

Thanks for the 1st hand info and glad to know Ross gathered another fan. And glad to know my hometown boy, Rohene, is busy creating interesting programs for up and comers - maybe one of them will fullfil the promise he had
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
..if you've ever watched Casablanca, he told the whole story beautifully.
OT, but I never really got Casablanca. It looked like the plot, characters and script were thrown randomly together at the liast minute, plus I don't see any chemistry between Humphey Bogart and that lady.

Sherlock Holmes, now... :yes:
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Bluebonnet, there were two massive stepouts, but neither were considered falls.

Ah, but it was worst stepouts. Honestly I'm sort of back and forth on this one. I want Bradley to win. But that was truly a clown program which should belong to circus. Nothing more.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Falls or step outs, Bradley was scored by the rules with proper deductions. The controversy, or the gift, is the UR uncalled.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
I don't think he's saying change the rules now. He's saying they should change (ie, future).

He then followed that up with a long rant and wall of stats about how Abbott is better than Miner internationally (i.e. the past) which I didn't quote because I don't want to blind people. But the post was right there and you should've been able to read it and inferred his meaning rather than be disingenuous about it.
 
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