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Thread: Senior Men's LP (starts at 4pm EST)

  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Well, Abbott and Rippon did get the 3 spots last year. So yes, a case can be made he can do it again if he has already done it. Personally, I think sending Miner over Abbott for 0.16 point, the difference of a single toe, is not a wise decision. Russians would never do that, it's illogical.

    No, it was Evan and Adam who secured the 3 spots.
    As much as I love Jeremy, he is inconsistant. Sending him to the worlds doesn't guarranty anything, sadly....

    ETA: Wait, maybe I'm confused. I'll go check about it again.
    ETA2: Okay, I was wrong. It was 2009 when Evan and Brandon secured 3 spots. Jeremy was 11th. Sorry about that.
    In 2010, Jeremy was 5th and Adam was 6th. And Ryan was 18th... Oh well.
    Last edited by gourry; 01-30-2011 at 09:18 PM.

  2. #497
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    For USa benefit it was not sure Abott would do well or Mirai or whoever, maybe they would feel more anxious if the spots were given to them regardless of their results. Statistically world newbies that have nothing to lose and time is not running out do much better than the more experienced headcases.
    I just wanted to see Mirai and Jeremy there cause they have my fav programs of the season.

    Mixed feelings cause it is not a common rule for all ISU members and that is the annoying part. Each federation uses its own rules which makes the whole sport a little less serious if from each country the skaters qualify at worlds differently. From a point of view skating has weird rules, when previous good results dont count much, the national champions are left out the next season, kinda of unsecure. You can win all season and dont go to worlds because of a bad national night. On the other hand I never liked that Nakano was dumbed twice in Olympics because GPF or whatever rules applied and she was not sent.

  3. #498
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    There's no way to build the perfect team without a time machine.

  4. #499
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    given how freaking nice all of these guys have been to each other, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the top three collectively said: hey, let's give these other great skaters another chance this year. Of course, maybe it didn't play out that way, just saying, they - in the press conferences and posted twitters or social networking comments - have been so respectful to each other.

    On another topic - am I the only one that (besides being so appreciative of Jeremy's sportsmanship) thinks more was 'wrong' with Jeremy than nerves; in the short I wondered if he was still uncomfortable in the new boots as his 3 lutz landing was super tight/jumpy- or unsmoothe; some of his footwork lacked the glide he typically has; then he got a level 2 (and I would still like to understand what happened with that); then the long program - not only the fall on the lutz and doulbed plan 3 toe - again, the "lack" of effortless looking edges....anyway: just wondering.

    Finally: am I the only one thought Dornbaush (sp?) was ridiculously composed and mature in press conference? That Ryan was too sweet for words for saying worst winning free skate ever. That Miner was beyond adorable (and mature/composed) to say: jeremy is a great skater and he never even thought about worlds. I'm really impressed with these guys. Sad that there were some anticipated missing great skates, but happy by how well many did AND how sportsman/people like these men are. I MIGHT miss Evan and Johnny's skating....but loved these guys tonight a lot!
    I think both Jeremy and Mirai were not nearly as well trained as they were last year. Jeremy, it's probably purely because of his boot problem. He couldn't get his quad back. Who knows what else he wasn't training as well as he had in the past.
    Mirai - the two months off with an injury but judging from Frank Carroll's, well, very frank comments to Phil Hersh, there was more to it than that and she wasn't training like he wanted her to. He said she didn't really get her act together until three weeks ago.

    Maybe Jeremy tricked himself into thinking he could make the world team even without good skates. He talked a lot about how he didn't really plan to peak at nationals. Too bad. He should have planned to win.

    Both Jeremy and Mirai were not stellar all season long and then they came undone at nationals. Not a good omen for how they would do at worlds. Mind you, this is coming from a fan. I just hope next year goes better for them. Four Continents too.

  5. #500
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Just back from the arena.

    My favorite skate of the night was Ross Miner's. He was more fluid, more in touch with the music than anyone else, and if you've ever watched Casablanca, he told the whole story beautifully. His jumps were super high too! This is his first nationals. I'm so happy for him. Everything was so, so smooth! He was a little underscored on the PCS side, IMO, and I'd have him over Dornbush in the long. His long spread eagle sequence, culminating in a 3/2/2 was fabulous In no way should he have been left off the world team (and I'm so glad he's going).

    My second favorite skate belonged to Jason Brown, who is only 16 and has braces and a pony tail. He reminds me of Robert Wagenhoffer. He had so many unique and interesting ways of doing things. I'm so glad that they're sending him to Jr. Worlds. In The Edge folder there is a thread about What Happened to These Old Jumps? Jason Brown and his choreographer Rohene Ward found them. Jason warms up doing a run of 3 walleys in a row down the rink midline. He opened his skate with a walley 3Lz3T. He's super flexible and does all kind of interesting positions, whatever he's doing.

    He does a great combination spin with a hydroblade.

    I also really liked Armin's program.

    I don't know whether Dornbush is usually fast, but today his footwork was Slo o o w. Everything was very competent, but for me, he didn't hold my interest in the way Jason and Ross did. From his skate I learned that Sherlock Holmes drinks rather than using morphine. Who knew .

    Jeremy had a horrible skate. That is why his tech content was 66.91.

    Ryan IMO did way too many quads and 3A's warming up. I'm so glad he was able to win, even if his performance wasn't what he would have wanted. Amazing, he landed 2 really good and 1 pretty good 3A between the SP and LP. This is a
    guy who was having trouble with his 2A last year. Congratulations Ryan.

  6. #501
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    That's unbelieveable. Zahradnicek had two beautiful skates including a 1st place in his SP beating Aaron.
    Who do you think Zahradnicek should bump? Aaron is the U.S. junior champion and the other two finished 8th and 9th against senior competition, even though they are still juniors internationally.

  7. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Yay, the USFS made the fair decision according their own established rules. I will never understand sports fans who want rules changed retroactively to benefit their favorites.
    I don't even have a Mens favorite. I'm fine with them following the rules, I just think the rules should change if they are not "fair" enough to include recent international competitions in selecting international teams. I'm sure Miner will be a fine US representative, but Abbott was just .19 behind him after a rough day and has a much stronger track record. A country should always look to try to do the best they possibly can at Worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Ross competed pretty well on the Grand Prix this fall.
    NHK Trophy SP: Abbott- 74.62 (2nd) Miner- 64.85 (7th)
    LP: Abbott- 143.57 (3rd) Miner- 121.77 (10th)
    Total: Abbott- 218.19 (3rd) Miner 186.62 (9th)

    Cup of Russia- Abbott: SP- 77.61 (2nd) LP-139.60 (4th)
    Total- 217.21 (3rd)

    Cup of China- Miner: SP- 67.10 (6th) LP- 130.03 (8th)
    Total- 197.13 (7th)

    Abbott outscored Miner by 31.57 points at NHK Trophy. Their second GPs were different and therefore difficult to compare, but Abbott still outscored Miner by 20 points. Abbott was 5th in the World last season and regularly medals on the GP. In fact, he might have even had an outside shot at a World medal this year. To me, it is quite obvious which skater has the potential to do better at Worlds. I understand the USFS rules are not set up to care about such things, but I wish they would care.

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    given how freaking nice all of these guys have been to each other, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the top three collectively said: hey, let's give these other great skaters another chance this year. Of course, maybe it didn't play out that way, just saying, they - in the press conferences and posted twitters or social networking comments - have been so respectful to each other.

    On another topic - am I the only one that (besides being so appreciative of Jeremy's sportsmanship) thinks more was 'wrong' with Jeremy than nerves; in the short I wondered if he was still uncomfortable in the new boots as his 3 lutz landing was super tight/jumpy- or unsmoothe; some of his footwork lacked the glide he typically has; then he got a level 2 (and I would still like to understand what happened with that); then the long program - not only the fall on the lutz and doulbed plan 3 toe - again, the "lack" of effortless looking edges....anyway: just wondering.

    Finally: am I the only one thought Dornbaush (sp?) was ridiculously composed and mature in press conference? That Ryan was too sweet for words for saying worst winning free skate ever. That Miner was beyond adorable (and mature/composed) to say: jeremy is a great skater and he never even thought about worlds. I'm really impressed with these guys. Sad that there were some anticipated missing great skates, but happy by how well many did AND how sportsman/people like these men are. I MIGHT miss Evan and Johnny's skating....but loved these guys tonight a lot!
    Skaters getting along well and being respectful of eath other are the main consequences of the US federation being clear and consistent of their selection process. Psychologically, I know the easiest way to foster conflict among athletes are for the authority figure to favor one athlete over the others (this is how sibling conflict occurs - a parental favoritism).

    There is an argument to be made between the Russian selection process vs. the US way.

    However, I do commend for the us federation to be fair and consistent. Knowing their federation to be fair, skaters can focus all their attention to their own skating skills. Hence, when the "battle" is over, skaters can afford to be gracious and respectful to his fellow skaters.

    This is such a contrast with a terrible conflict between Plushenko and Yagudin. Remember, Yagudin was heartbroken and left Mishin because his "daddy figure" Mishin favored Plushenko.

    Besides, US men have historically "done alright" with the US federation's selection process. As ImaginaryPogue said, we cannot go to the future and select best skaters.

  9. #504
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gold12345 View Post
    I'm fine with them following the rules, I just think the rules should change if they are not "fair" enough to include recent international competitions in selecting international teams.
    Yeeeeeeeeeeeesh, changing the rules retroactively is the very definition of unfair.

  10. #505
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    I don't think he's saying change the rules now. He's saying they should change (ie, future). That's no different than changing the value of the quad.

  11. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Just back from the arena.

    My favorite skate of the night was Ross Miner's. He was more fluid, more in touch with the music than anyone else, and if you've ever watched Casablanca, he told the whole story beautifully. His jumps were super high too! This is his first nationals. I'm so happy for him. Everything was so, so smooth! He was a little underscored on the PCS side, IMO, and I'd have him over Dornbush in the long. His long spread eagle sequence, culminating in a 3/2/2 was fabulous In no way should he have been left off the world team (and I'm so glad he's going).

    My second favorite skate belonged to Jason Brown, who is only 16 and has braces and a pony tail. He reminds me of Robert Wagenhoffer. He had so many unique and interesting ways of doing things. I'm so glad that they're sending him to Jr. Worlds. In The Edge folder there is a thread about What Happened to These Old Jumps? Jason Brown and his choreographer Rohene Ward found them. Jason warms up doing a run of 3 walleys in a row down the rink midline. He opened his skate with a walley 3Lz3T. He's super flexible and does all kind of interesting positions, whatever he's doing.

    He does a great combination spin with a hydroblade.

    I also really liked Armin's program.

    I don't know whether Dornbush is usually fast, but today his footwork was Slo o o w. Everything was very competent, but for me, he didn't hold my interest in the way Jason and Ross did. From his skate I learned that Sherlock Holmes drinks rather than using morphine. Who knew .

    Jeremy had a horrible skate. That is why his tech content was 66.91.

    Ryan IMO did way too many quads and 3A's warming up. I'm so glad he was able to win, even if his performance wasn't what he would have wanted. Amazing, he landed 2 really good and 1 pretty good 3A between the SP and LP. This is a
    guy who was having trouble with his 2A last year. Congratulations Ryan.
    So great to hear/read your first hand commentary. I look forward to much, much more once you rest a bit! I really liked Miner's program and can't wait to see it again as it took me - or he took me - by surprise and I wasn't quite paying the attention I should. I quite liked Ricky too...but am unable to compare at this moment.

    It is great to hear that Rohene Ward is very involved with skating still - not surprised that he would find interesting moves or jumps. Hope he is well and I look forward to much more of Jason (and many others like Armin) in the future. Ok, I'll just add: i love how armin moves; maybe he needs more speed and etc. but love his line and use of the body, especially neck, shoulders, arms to fingers with deep knees at the same time.

  12. #507
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    ...the US federation being clear and consistent of their selection process.
    In my opinion, this is the argument that carries all before it. Clear. Consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    That's no different than changing the value of the quad.
    Speaking of which, the quad enthusiasts should be very pleased with how this competition turned out. The only one of the top guys who did a quad, won. Pure and simple.

    Ryan did the two worst quads in the history of the sport and came away with 18.54 points.

  13. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Ryan did the two worst quads in the history of the sport and came away with 18.54 points.

  14. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    Skaters getting along well and being respectful of eath other are the main consequences of the US federation being clear and consistent of their selection process. Psychologically, I know the easiest way to foster conflict among athletes are for the authority figure to favor one athlete over the others (this is how sibling conflict occurs - a parental favoritism).

    There is an argument to be made between the Russian selection process vs. the US way.

    However, I do commend for the us federation to be fair and consistent. Knowing their federation to be fair, skaters can focus all their attention to their own skating skills. Hence, when the "battle" is over, skaters can afford to be gracious and respectful to his fellow skaters.

    This is such a contrast with a terrible conflict between Plushenko and Yagudin. Remember, Yagudin was heartbroken and left Mishin because his "daddy figure" Mishin favored Plushenko.

    Besides, US men have historically "done alright" with the US federation's selection process. As ImaginaryPogue said, we cannot go to the future and select best skaters.
    Sorry, but I can't help it - Tonya Harding anyone?

  15. #510
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    Ah, I haven't had chance to read through this long thread yet. But where is the outrage on this newly crowned 2 fall champion?! Double standard?

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