Senior Men's LP (starts at 4pm EST)

[sidwich]

I adore Jeremy's skating, but the USFSA isn't necessarily wrong to be delivering Jeremy a little tough love. It worked with Alissa too. Its always a good idea to tell skaters that you'll back the ones who deliver in competition-period. And we don't care how talented you are, if you don't deliver for us, we will back the ones who do.

I'm a big fan of Jeremy's skating as well, but I also agree that sending Jeremy to Worlds right now might not be such a good thing for him. I don't even think that it's necessarily a matter of tough love, since I haven't heard of him slacking off on training (at least on purpose) so I don't think it's a Nicole Bobek situation. Jeremy's had a pretty rough year, and in a good year, he's been a headcase at Worlds. I don't think with the boot problems he's had, the possible mental and physical fallout from the missed training, and then a disastrous nationals... well, I just don't think that "gifting" him a trip to Worlds is going to be doing him any favors.

Jeremy and his team have already been working on a training program which is going to get him physically and mentally ready for major international competition. Let him go to 4CCs and work through the less pressured environment and then regroup and refocus for next year. It may be very good for him.

[colleen o'neill]

Was reading back over the thread and noticed doris singled out Jason Brown. Squinting at my computer screen during the JGP series , he was my favourite among the assembled talent. I'll be looking for him , for sure...

[CARA]

Jeremy and his team have already been working on a training program which is going to get him physically and mentally ready for major international competition. Let him go to 4CCs and work through the less pressured environment and then regroup and refocus for next year. It may be very good for him.

[drivingmissdaisy]

I agree with the USFSA's decision of the three chosen to go to worlds, and I think some of the criticism of the younger skaters is unfair.

- No one was "lucky" to skate clean. These are elite athletes who train 6 days a week on and off the ice to deliver their best at Nationals. A great performance should be expected given this level of commitment, and 2 athletes delivered in the LP. While perhaps "unexpected," this was no "luck" at all; if anything, those who made mistakes were "unlucky".

- It is completely fair to expect athletes to peak at Nationals. The skaters know that, aside from a few exceptions over the years, the top ranked skaters at Nationals will go to Worlds. Nationals is a high stakes competition and if skaters crumble under the pressure they should not expect to be gifted anything. Kwan had no problem peaking at Nationals, and was generally able to deliver equally compelling programs at Worlds as well. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that because Abbot's plan was to peak at Worlds, he actually would peak at Worlds. While Abbott's score was frustratingly close to 3rd place, he did finish in 4th and rather than drawing an arbitrary line of how close to 3rd should be close enough for Abbott, the USFSA has chosen to focus strictly on the placement.

- I think it is a mistake to choose a World team based on Grand Prix performances. In essence, these are events to get your programs in front of international judges early in the season to get feedback in order to make necessary adjustments for future competitions. A skater's programs should be better by the end of January than they were in November, and in this regard weighing more heavily performances at Nationals vs those in the GP makes a lot of sense (to me).

I like Abbott very much, and I think he is the best skater in our country. But he bombed today. Other champions have bombed in the past (Kwan in 1997, for example) but in those instances other competitors did not deliver superior performances. Tonight they did, and IMHO they should be rewarded with spots on the World team.

[pangtongfan]

I actually thought Bobek and Nikidinov both should have beaten Kwan in the LP at Nationals in 97. Not sure that would have changed the final overall results though. Kwan would have been put on the team for sure even if she missed the podium and even if the top 3 were Lipinski, Kwiatkowski, and Bobek. However Abbott is not Michelle Kwan of course either.

[FlattFan]

I think Dornbush, Abbott & Bradley should be the world team. Tough on Miner, yes, but the point difference between him & Jeremy was only .16 points, and I don't think that it should invalidate the entire international fall season. At his worst, Abbott can be top 10 in the world; at his best, it's questionable for Miner. Jeremy's a headcase, but he will no doubt get the PCS.

Abbot had been 11th at World TWICE. At his worst, he could be out of the final free skate group like Oda last year. You like to lie. Why? The top 3 earned it, and should go to Tokyo.

[aemeraldrainc]

Kinda random, but just thought I'd share:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnjL7...eature=related

Ryan Bradley's first senior Nationals appearance. 10 years ago!

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91QKv8WO31Y

2007 Nationals where he won silver.

[aemeraldrainc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwuq3icKw2E


Didn't realize this hadn't been posted.
Ryan's free skate.

[katymay]

I agree with you, but in North America, the federations form the World team based on Nationals results 99.9% of the time. That's just the way it is. I really don't like this system, but after watching a number of Canadian and US championships over the years, I've know that I simply have to accept it.

Should we make it more like the selection of the gymnastics team? Let's see, a kid works her entire life, ranks at the top in Nationals and the Trials, and then a small Star Chamber headed by a former adherent of the Soviet system decides who is on the team. I do not care how Russia or Japan does it. This is the United States, and in a sport that is already political ENOUGH, thank you, let's just keep this one thing objective. Top 2 or 3 GO, period.
Mirai completely fell apart at the end of her program-a complete spin omission. That is sad, but the world will continue to spin. Ryan is a bit slow for my taste, but what a super nice guy, you can't help but to fall in love with this dude, and I do not care if he comes in 1st or 16th at Worlds. The quads were ALMOST in my opinion, and at least he went for it. The World team, or Olympic team, should always be those who performed the best on a certain night, and a certain point in time. With the exception of being hit on the knee, I wouldn't even allow injured athletes to be petitioned onto the team.
I think the men, especially, are deep with future talent, and I seriously hope that both Johnny and Evan move on and allow the new crop to move up. Best of luck to them all at Worlds! But even if their World's placements are less than stellar, I think the US skating community will survive.

[seniorita]

For historical reasons, has it ever happened that a world champion or someone with many medals, didnt deliver at the next year nationals and they gave him another chance?
and Mathman, these were the worst two quads in fs history? !!

Thanx Doris for arena aroma!

[Mathman]

OK, yes, the quads in the FS were poor, but there was also the SP, which is why Bradley had the buffer that he did. He did 4T+3T, 3A, 3F. Not too shabby in the jump department.

I wasn't complaining. Just pointing out that the 2010-2011 rules give huge rewards for quads without much regard for quality.

I think this was a deliberate decision on the part of the ISU, to reduce the negative GOEs on a quad.

For historical reasons, has it ever happened that a world champion or someone with many medals, didnt deliver at the next year nationals and they gave him another chance?

I don't think so. But sometimes there is a suspicion that the old champion is given inflated scores at Nationals just to make sure this problem doesn't arise.

and Mathman, these were the worst two quads in fs history? !!

There have been worse, but with an appropriate penalty. Ryan got away stark free.

[lavender]

Ryan had the great short but Jeremy also had the great short but they certainly didn't consider him.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Eh, the whole thing strikes me as too serendipitous to either change or really work with.

For example, if Tomas Verner hadn't bombed so royally in 2008, he likely would've been ahead of Carriere/Abbott. If so, the USA has only two spots in 2009. If so, and they stick with the Nationals results, Mroz and Abbott go to Worlds, Lysacek misses out on winning Worlds, etc etc. On the other hand, if Lysacek didn't have to WD from 2008 worlds, this whole thing is moot, as they're likely gonna get the three spots.

Top two placements is equal to or less than 28 is required for two slots, though. Losing that would be pretty disasterous, but not implausible.

[seniorita]

There have been worse, but with an appropriate penalty. Ryan got away stark free.

yes but why US judges would do that? They had any reason to promote Bradley? This i dont understand.

So if Lysacek came back next seasona and qas doing well in Gps, but placed lower than the World spots because he did have a bad night, they would say to Olympic Champion stay home, we will send Durnbuss?
I m not debating, Abott is not Lysacek, I m trying to understand how strict are the rules.

[Joesitz]

The argument has been whether to send the skaters based on one hometown competition or arriving at a decision based on present and past performances taking in the possible unneasiness of a competitor. The hometown results leave no room for argument. It's a queston of whether the strongest team is more important than a lucky team.
The cries for Mirai are real and I agree with them as I am for a review of present and past performances. Personally I would prefer to see Mirai and Rachael at Worlds for getting back the 3 positions for next season. It didn't happen and so I am hoping for the present World Team to do it. It is possible that Rachael and Alissa can place in the total range of 13.

Not so sure about the Men. We are sending two greenhorns to Worlds but both have done well in international competitions before so I am hoping they rise to the occasion. There are fiercely better competitors in the Worlds' Men's division than the Ladies division. I am not convinced that Ryan will hold up but I hope he does.