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Thread: 2011 Four Continents & World Championship Teams

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That's correct. So far the Committee has never taken an active role in pushing one skater ahead of another.
    And that's my problem with them, they should. Otherwise why have a Committee? While the non-decision-making that occurs in World Teams selection is the most obvious example, generally (in the 20 years I've been a member), USFS management and governance has always struck me as a collectively weak bunch, incapable of stepping up to the plate and making hard decisions even when their own bylaws allow for this. Especially when there may be some controversy involved and they might have to take some hits for their decisions.

    As a manager that sometimes has to make judgment calls based on what's best for the situation as a whole--regardless of needs of individuals and with full knowledge that the decision isn't going to be universally acceptable--I don't have a lot of respect for the way USFS does the team selections. IMO, there are definitely some mistakes in the composition of these teams, more so this year than in other recent years.

  2. #17
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    So, the world competitors are deciding to go to 4C because the two competitions are in the same hemisphere this time? Normally, it really does look like the B team goes to 4C.

  3. #18
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    I just curious will there be any controversy or action verses team selection guidelines if adam and jeremy go 1,2 at 4CC and the world skaters all finish out of the the top ten, which is likely. Does the committee take any heat for selecting a bad team. Has the committee ever taken any blame or resposibilty for selected a bad team for worlds(olympics). What is the actual job of the committee. Are they suppose retain three spots for champion events, send the best team to worlds, or just pick a team or just go down the placement list.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    And that's my problem with them, they should. Otherwise why have a Committee? While the non-decision-making that occurs in World Teams selection is the most obvious example, generally (in the 20 years I've been a member), USFS management and governance has always struck me as a collectively weak bunch, incapable of stepping up to the plate and making hard decisions even when their own bylaws allow for this. Especially when there may be some controversy involved and they might have to take some hits for their decisions.

    As a manager that sometimes has to make judgment calls based on what's best for the situation as a whole--regardless of needs of individuals and with full knowledge that the decision isn't going to be universally acceptable--I don't have a lot of respect for the way USFS does the team selections. IMO, there are definitely some mistakes in the composition of these teams, more so this year than in other recent years.
    Is the US federation afraid of being sued if they select a skater outside of the "winner takes all" rule? The thought just occurred to me. After all, the US is a very litigious society, much more so than other figure-skate-dominant countries, e.g., Japan, Russia.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    Is the US federation afraid of being sued if they select a skater outside of the "winner takes all" rule? The thought just occurred to me. After all, the US is a very litigious society, much more so than other figure-skate-dominant countries, e.g., Japan, Russia.
    Absolutely not, there are definitey many precedents where skaters who didn't compete or failed to medal in the U.S. Championship were sent to Worlds instead, e.g. Belbin/Agosto, Kimmie Meissner

    Edit to add: But these past cases were usually pretty overwhelming and perhaps they felt neither case this year reached that level in the past to invoke such precedents.
    Last edited by wallylutz; 01-30-2011 at 10:39 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alsace View Post
    So, the world competitors are deciding to go to 4C because the two competitions are in the same hemisphere this time? Normally, it really does look like the B team goes to 4C.
    Ehhh....

    In 2009, everyone went. But that was the 4CC held in the Olympic venue the season before the Olympics. No brainer.

    In 2008, it was fairly split

  7. #22
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Absolutely not, there are definitey many precedents where skaters who didn't compete or failed to medal in the U.S. Championship were sent to Worlds instead, e.g. Belbin/Agosto, Kimmie Meissner

    Edit to add: But these past cases were usually pretty overwhelming and perhaps they felt neither case this year reached that level in the past to invoke such precedents.

    In 2008 it was only because the 1st and 2nd place finishers (Mirai and Rachael) were too young to go. Otherwise, the U.S. would most certainly have sent all three medalists. 2008 is hardly a good argument for not sending the top three finishers. It was the year the U.S. lost the three spots in the first place.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Absolutely not, there are definitey many precedents where skaters who didn't compete or failed to medal in the U.S. Championship were sent to Worlds instead, e.g. Belbin/Agosto, Kimmie Meissner

    Edit to add: But these past cases were usually pretty overwhelming and perhaps they felt neither case this year reached that level in the past to invoke such precedents.
    I think it would be interesting to know the results of just how well those skaters who were selected to the Worlds without medal in the U.S. Championship actually did in the Worlds. Does anyone know? That way, at least we have some object measure to evaluate if making an exception is a better ides or not.

  9. #24
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    I think it would be interesting to know the results of just how well those skaters who were selected to the Worlds without medal in the U.S. Championship actually did in the Worlds. Does anyone know? That way, at least we have some object measure to evaluate if making an exception is a better ides or not.
    Like I said, it didn't go so well in 2008. I believe Kimmie finished 8th or something.

    With B&A it went well - they won silver. But it wasn't a matter of them imploding at nationals and getting sent anyway. They had to miss nationals because of an injury and petitioned on the team.

    Neither year really sets a precedent for a skater who falls apart at nationals getting sent anyway. I can't think of any time the the U.S. had done that.

    My biggest problem with the argument that the U.S. should do things differently is that, actually, the way the U.S. has done things has served them just fine.

    The U.S. ladies don't have three spots because they haven't deserved them. But there is no question for instance that last year Rachael and Mirai were the best to send.

    In 2009, it was a different story but it was because of Alissa's controversial win not because the committee randomly decided to send Alissa. The selection process has nothing to do with it.

    The one time in recent years that the U.S. had to break with precedent in the U.S. ladies comp - out of necessity - was the time it lost its three spots.
    Last edited by Layfan; 01-30-2011 at 11:00 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Like I said, it didn't go so well in 2008. I believe Kimmie finished 8th or something.
    And her score was lower than Hacker's was at Four Continents. Higher base value, higher TES, lower PCS (For Hacker).

  11. #26
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    Michelle Kwan in 2006 was another case and even by then, Michelle was no longer as dominant internationally as she once were.

  12. #27
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    And Jeremy would have a lot better to case to make (or his fans would, cause he seems fine) if he had had better int'l results. Didn't MK petition her way onto the team? And she had to skate a test skate - was that Olys? (how quickly these things fade in my brain)

  13. #28
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    Last 4CC was definitely 2nd tier because of the Olympics. This year I think the location is taken into consideration by the N American skaters going to Worlds as both competitions take place in Asia. The travelling and adjustments required back to back can be physically draining and time consuming. Some skaters prefer to stay home to focus on preparation for Worlds though some may like to have additional international competition before the WC.

    Next year both events will take place in N American continent I believe. I wish they would have one on each side of the Globe each year to be fair to competing skaters.

  14. #29
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    Worlds is in Nice, France for 2012. London, Canda for 2013.

  15. #30
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    If I were USFSA, I would send Dornbush, Miner and Rippon to 4CC and send the highest finisher there to Worlds in Tokyo to accompany Bradley (US Champ) and Abbot (highest US ranker ISU).

    Italy did something like that for Kostner IIRC.

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