View Poll Results: Can she win JW?

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  • Yes

    28 46.67%
  • No

    32 53.33%
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Thread: Can a clean Agnes win JW?

  1. #61
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Giving your heart to the dogs to tear is a lot more profitable activity than getting vested in the chances of junior skaters at future Olympics.

    So I'm not getting invested in any of them, Agnes included, at this time.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsk8fan View Post
    I do think Gao and Zawadzki will improve. They both want to be competitive and other than speed, have very nice jumps and spins. ( I actually don't think they are super slow.) I am also excited about Courtney. She seems to have competitive fire. She has work to do presentation wise, but so do the young russian skaters. You never know what will come about in three years, who will improve and who will struggle. The junior skaters right now could go either way.
    That's what impressed me about Hicks. She attacks the ice and with so many US Senior skaters looking like a deer in the headlights i like that she doesn't seem to hold back. John Nicks says she's fearless so we can only hope he's right.

  3. #63
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    It's been my general observation that many Juniors (and younger skaters) are "fearless" because they don't have that much to lose... yet. Once skaters hit the Senior and/or Senior international level, the competitive stakes are so much higher, and with that realization comes its own set of pressures and challenges.

    My personal philosophy -- which has evolved over years of watching generations of promising, young skaters grow up -- is to try and appreciate their skating accomplishments and achievements as they happen... because you just never know how they will develop/progress in the future.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    It's been my general observation that many Juniors (and younger skaters) are "fearless" because they don't have that much to lose... yet. Once skaters hit the Senior and/or Senior international level, the competitive stakes are so much higher, and with that realization comes its own set of pressures and challenges.

    My personal philosophy -- which has evolved over years of watching generations of promising, young skaters grow up -- is to try and appreciate their skating accomplishments and achievements as they happen... because you just never know how they will develop/progress in the future.
    You are very wise to take this approach on appreciating the skaters for what they are at the present. Saves from being totally disappointed later on.
    Last edited by cjsk8fan; 02-12-2011 at 09:02 PM.

  5. #65
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    Of course I can still be disappointed for the skaters that aren't able to achieve their potential for whatever reason (growth, injury, lack of finances, loss of motivation, desire to focus on education or other interests, etc.), but one thing to keep in mind is that however disappointed a skater's fans might be, it probably pales in comparison to the disappointment a skater feels in himself/herself.

  6. #66
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I am happy to enjoy junior & novice performances as they occur, too.

    I just don't extrapolate skaters' current success into future success.

  7. #67
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I am happy to enjoy junior & novice performances as they occur, too.

    I just don't extrapolate skaters' current success into future success.
    But Doris, it's like National Letter of Intent Signing Day for high school football players where the guy coming into your favorite college is going to be a 4 year Heisman winner!

  8. #68
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    If I were a coach, or a scout, I might have the burden of worrying whether a kid will grow too tall to skate (or stay too short to play basketball) or whatever.

    But I'm just a fan, and I don't have that worry

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    If I were a coach, or a scout, I might have the burden of worrying whether a kid will grow too tall to skate (or stay too short to play basketball) or whatever.

    But I'm just a fan, and I don't have that worry
    I feel like height is becoming less of an issue in skating. Evan Lysacek is the Olympic champion at 6'2" after all. Polina Shelepen has grown to 5'6" this season and can still rock the 3lz-3t.

  10. #70
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    I don't understand the fuss about Agnes' lack of presentation. Fans don't say anything corrective about that. Should she take on the style of all the other skaters or be herself? If she chooses the faux ballet style, she'll be just another boring competitor. There are enough of those in the Ladies Division.

    In musical terms, she seems to me to be taking on the role of a virtuoso or hard core technique (at least for the elements). That's how great musicians start out by developing good technique before finding their style of presentation.

    As a competitor, though, she'll be judged in that category of Interpretation, and she is not yet ready for that but then, who is? maybe a teenybopper flutzing and grinning from ear to ear will most likely win.

  11. #71
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    People are talking about the entirety of the PCS mark that she needs to improve: SS, IN, PE. In skating skills the knock from most fans is "slower than the Russian wonder babies and not as strong with edgework" (this is a common knock on Tom Z's students, even when not always true (Jeremy A when he was in Tom's group and I don't think Yuka and Jason did THAT much to his skating skills, just made him better focused some of the time)), in PE/IN it's the presentation piece of the PE mark in that the knock is the style being presented doesn't match what is perceived as her "skating style" and that she is being packaged incorrectly (in other words, the programs look forced and less organic than something more "Agnes"). This is also a typical knock on Tom Z's students and something that Tom and team have a hard time doing for their lady skaters (see all of the knocks on the packaging of Rachel Flatt - program choices, boring, costume choices, etc over the last several years and some of the knocks on A Gilles).

  12. #72
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    Agnes's presentation is fine, IMO. It's her packaging that needs work. She's already great but could be so much better with better suited programs, packaging, music, costumes, etc.

  13. #73
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    It's telling that you can see which is a Tom Z skater just by how they skate and how slow they are. Brandon Mroz for instance.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Giving your heart to the dogs to tear is a lot more profitable activity than getting vested in the chances of junior skaters at future Olympics.

    So I'm not getting invested in any of them, Agnes included, at this time.
    Well said!

    The way I do it is for Juniors - I try to look at skaters who have not skated in Seniors and see if there is talent. I've seen the American skaters who skate Seniors at US Nats so I do not rely on Junior Worlds. From what i saw at US Nats Seniors, I believe Jason Brown is a strong possible future Olympian.

    For Novice, which I believe suffers from a lot of attrition, there is only talent one can perceive as future possibilities. Chen has that.

  15. #75
    It is so interesting to go back and look at junior world podiums from previous seasons because it is rare that those podium finishers become senior World and Olympic podium finishers. Many junior world champions have fallen off the radar and cannot even qualify for senior worlds. On the flip side, many of the current senior stars never made a world podium at the junior level.

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