Comparing Men's Nationals Scores | Golden Skate

Comparing Men's Nationals Scores

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
FWIW

Patrick Chan ...................285.85 CAN
Takahiko Kozuka...............251.93 JPN
Nobunari Oda...................237.48 JPN
Daisuke Takahashi.............236.79 JPN
Ryan Bradley....................231.90 USA
Brian JOUBERT..................231.85 FRA
Shawn Sawyer..................229.09 CAN
Richard Dornbush...............225.56 USA
Konstantin Menshov............225.17 RUS
Ross Miner........................224.35 USA
Jeremy Abbott...................224.16 USA
Florent AMODIO.................222.55 FRA
Tomas VERNER..................221.20 CZE
Yuzuru Hanyu....................220.06 JPN
Adam Rippon.....................220.04 USA
Samuel CONTESTI..............216.79 ITA
Armin Mahbanoozadeh........215.05 USA
Brandon Mroz....................213.49 USA
Keegan Messing.................213.29 USA
Arthur Gachinsky................211.28 RUS
Takahito Mura...................207.31 JPN
Yan Han...........................206.01 CHN
Kristoffer BERNTSSON.........205.31 SWE
Zhan Bush.........................204.98 RUS
Sergei Voronov..................204.71 RUS
Tatsuki Machida.................204.11 JPN
Joey Russell.......................204.02 CAN
Gordey Gorshkov................203.50 RUS
Alban PREAUBER.................202.94 FRA
Michal BREZINA..................202.76 CZE

Use your personally assigned rates of inflation.

Chan, Sawyer, and Joubert did outperform their international best this season whereas the top Japanese, Amodio, Abbott, Rippon, and Mroz underperformed. (IMO and not by scores.) Others I can't say for sure. The other Americans on this list don't have international senior scores to measure against.
 
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ivy

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
So on this list Americans are 5 and 8 so if WC tracks this - still three spots for US Men! I think they'd be happy with those results - and probably lucky to get them. But of the none other skaters in their "neighborhood" seem to be especially on this year so far. From 5 to 15 range, of those competing at Worlds, I'd say only Amodio the has a big potential upside, maybe Verner, but I haven't seen it in his skates.

Thanks for putting together such an interesting list!
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Hmm, my "realistic wishlist" for placements at Worlds would probably be:

01. Daisuke Takahashi - He deserves to end his career out as 2-time World champ. Don't love his LP this year but he at least shows his stunning performance abilities with the SP.

02. Takahiko Kozuka - Although I don't care for his programs this year, he is amazing and needs to build momentum for the future. I've found him more interesting than Chan thus far in their careers.

03. Patrick Chan - Please find some real maturity and/or programs that work with your nature (like the 2009 programs). Then you'll be more deserving of the scores you're receiving. Hopefully a 3rd place will force Lori Nichol to get more creative next season.

04. Florent Amodio - His LP is such a perfect fit this year and he definitely has a unique personality and movement to his skating that I want to see more of. This placement solidifies his position as a real contender while keeping him hungry and driven to keep improving.

05. Shawn Sawyer - He'd be very happy with a top 5 placement and very much deserves it for the creativity he brings, if he skates as well as Nationals.

06. Ryan Bradley - Because the U.S. needs 3 spots.

07. Ross Miner - Because the U.S. needs 3 spots (and I prefer his programs to Dornbush's).

08. Brian Joubert - Don't want to see him completely bomb. This also gives France 3 spots for next year - I want Yannick Ponsero to come back next season and be on the team.

09. Javier Fernandez - He shows promise. This would be an improvement from last year and keep him on a good path.

10. Don't really care at this point.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I'm looking for Abbott to really bring it at the 4CC, just as I knew Chan would shine after the first few competitions. Not a wish but a projection bashed on reasons I may explain after the event.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
With Patrick, his SP reminds of when some ballerinas try to to jazz. It's like they can do the steps very well and the beat and everything but they're struggling to lose their ballet arms and their classical way of moving.

Patrick has the flow and the speed but not the sharpness and tension that music requires. I don't know if I'm explaining it well.

I like the choreo just fine but it doesn't quite go with his way of moving.

His LP goes with him sooooo much better. I really like some moments in the programs like the little cabrioles and the footwork into his second lutz... I thought he showed a bit more passion than usual at Canadian nationals. Still, it's not the most memorable choreo in the word and I don't love the cut of the music for the final footwork section.

His relationship with Lori seems like a special one. Hopefully, it will lead to signature programs for Patrick at some point.
 
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Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Numbers are just that numbers, they don't mean squat in the grand scheme of things, it's any man's game! I hope each man will remember that when they take the ice. :rock:
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Hmm, my "realistic wishlist" for placements at Worlds would probably be:

01. Daisuke Takahashi - He deserves to end his career out as 2-time World champ. Don't love his LP this year but he at least shows his stunning performance abilities with the SP.

02. Takahiko Kozuka - Although I don't care for his programs this year, he is amazing and needs to build momentum for the future. I've found him more interesting than Chan thus far in their careers.

03. Patrick Chan - Please find some real maturity and/or programs that work with your nature (like the 2009 programs). Then you'll be more deserving of the scores you're receiving. Hopefully a 3rd place will force Lori Nichol to get more creative next season.

04. Florent Amodio - His LP is such a perfect fit this year and he definitely has a unique personality and movement to his skating that I want to see more of. This placement solidifies his position as a real contender while keeping him hungry and driven to keep improving.

05. Shawn Sawyer - He'd be very happy with a top 5 placement and very much deserves it for the creativity he brings, if he skates as well as Nationals.

06. Ryan Bradley - Because the U.S. needs 3 spots.

07. Ross Miner - Because the U.S. needs 3 spots (and I prefer his programs to Dornbush's).

08. Brian Joubert - Don't want to see him completely bomb. This also gives France 3 spots for next year - I want Yannick Ponsero to come back next season and be on the team.

09. Javier Fernandez - He shows promise. This would be an improvement from last year and keep him on a good path.

10. Don't really care at this point.

I love this scenario.. Sawyer beating Joubert, YEAH. lol. Not that I hate Joubert, I just really love Sawyer and want him to beat a former world champion.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Hmm, my "realistic wishlist" for placements at Worlds would probably be:

01. Daisuke Takahashi - He deserves to end his career out as 2-time World champ. Don't love his LP this year but he at least shows his stunning performance abilities with the SP.

02. Takahiko Kozuka - Although I don't care for his programs this year, he is amazing and needs to build momentum for the future. I've found him more interesting than Chan thus far in their careers.

03. Patrick Chan - Please find some real maturity and/or programs that work with your nature (like the 2009 programs). Then you'll be more deserving of the scores you're receiving. Hopefully a 3rd place will force Lori Nichol to get more creative next season.

04. Florent Amodio - His LP is such a perfect fit this year and he definitely has a unique personality and movement to his skating that I want to see more of. This placement solidifies his position as a real contender while keeping him hungry and driven to keep improving.

05. Shawn Sawyer - He'd be very happy with a top 5 placement and very much deserves it for the creativity he brings, if he skates as well as Nationals.

06. Ryan Bradley - Because the U.S. needs 3 spots.

07. Ross Miner - Because the U.S. needs 3 spots (and I prefer his programs to Dornbush's).

08. Brian Joubert - Don't want to see him completely bomb. This also gives France 3 spots for next year - I want Yannick Ponsero to come back next season and be on the team.

09. Javier Fernandez - He shows promise. This would be an improvement from last year and keep him on a good path.

10. Don't really care at this point.

Hey, where is Oda? And Brezina? And Verner?

Oda will bump Amodio off one place at least. Brian Joubert is still sharp enough to be in top 6. I don't have much hope for Sawyer and Bradley. Seeing how unbelievable reaction they displayed at their Nationals, I think they're very much done for the season. Hope I'm wrong.
 
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sunny0760

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Hey, where is Oda?

Oda has just won at Universiade 2011 in Turkey. :)
http://www.universiadeerzurum.org/figure-skating
It seems that he did not have a clean LP and no quad(s).

Oda is the best jumper in Japan and one of the best jumpers in the world but does not seem to be the toughest competitor. At least, so far.

4CC will be interesting... No Chan, no Oda, no three medalists of US Nats but almost everyone else including Saywer and Denis Ten.(Ten just won in SP at Winter Asian Games held in his home country. Very clean SP)

It would not be terribly late to predict about Worlds after seeing 4CC with more prospect.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
4CC will be interesting... No Chan, no Oda, no three medalists of US Nats but almost everyone else including Saywer and Denis Ten.

It doesn't matter whether the US podium finishers are there or not. I still think that the top US guys are in 4CC until it proved not.

I'm so excited about 4CC. It's like a world championship without Patrick Chan. Ha, ha!
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Numbers are just that numbers, they don't mean squat in the grand scheme of things, it's any man's game! I hope each man will remember that when they take the ice. :rock:
Exactly, why compare Canadian scores versus Japanese scores? are all judges equal?
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Exactly, why compare Canadian scores versus Japanese scores? are all judges equal?

Different people view and get their information differently from such data and compilations. This list is done with disclaimers. Take it and interpret it as you see fit. Or not.

I don't include these scores in my other compilations of this season's highest scores for obvious reasons. However, this is the list to include major competitors at the upcoming World Championship. Interestingly, it seems to receive more attention and comments than those of the international records.
 
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Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Hey, where is Oda? And Brezina? And Verner?

I don't care for any of them (at least not with the terrible LP Verner has this year). They have all had meltdowns before, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that they finish outside of the top 9.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
^^^
I do not follow these high scoring results as indicative of a skater's abilities to win a Worlds.

Home town judging may very well show high scores for a favorite son.

International judging may very well show high scores, but they can not be compared with other competitions. Different Panels are not equal.

I can see Chan as one of the top contenders without these scores.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I don't have much hope for Sawyer and Bradley. Seeing how unbelievable reaction they displayed at their Nationals, I think they're very much done for the season.

I don't think you can draw any conclusions from that. Tomorrow is another day.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
I don't care for any of them (at least not with the terrible LP Verner has this year). They have all had meltdowns before, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that they finish outside of the top 9.

Then it seems to me, it's just a wishlist, not very realistic.:)
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
It's a realistic wishlist! Notice how I didn't taken Chan off the podium, which of course will not happen. :biggrin:
 

shusterbutski

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 4, 2011
While you certainly can't use scores from each countries national championship to predict worlds, it does give a vague indication of where the skaters are standing based on what they were able to deliver. While I don't see Patrick winning worlds by 30+ points I don't think the huge difference in scores it should be overlooked. The first four I think are a somewhat accurate state of Men's skating. For me the real question is from Ryan Bradley down, between a lot of those guys its a total toss up in terms of the result were going to see in the final two major competitions of the season, its going to pretty exciting
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
:laugh: Blades, you are so generous.

I couldn't resist to make my wish. I wish Chan to win the Worlds. If skate god has time, give Abbott at least a 4CC medal.:)

Abbott didn't put quad in LP at the Nationals is a bit worrysome to me. Maybe he should go to Patrick's coach to get the tips on jumping quads.
 
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sunny0760

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
It's a realistic wishlist! Notice how I didn't taken Chan off the podium, which of course will not happen. :biggrin:

Well, your wishlist may realize in real life! Not all the best skater(s) win at the big stage, not all the time.
OTOH, there are also completely surprise victories. Unexpected things will happen and those are what I love in competition. Certain skaters you even did not metion may win!

It's obvious to me you are biased(you are not the only one who is biased) and your points are usually controversial, sometimes entertaining.

I think Chan is the best skater of this season and his LP at Nats is what can be seen as the best of all the performances by current skaters regardless of his score.
Next to him is Kozuka. 2011 is his breakthrough year.
You said Takahashi deserves two time World champion but I am not sure of it this year. The difference of his TES and PCS is often so large, so apparent especially this year... I don't want to see him winning with just so so TES and huge PCS with his competitors bombing. It would be a bad competition. If he wins at 4CC or Worlds more deservingly, he needs to raise his TES with solid technique. Anyway, have you heard anything about his retirement?
 
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