Coaches berating their skaters in Kiss N Cry | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Coaches berating their skaters in Kiss N Cry

BackStage Barbie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Yeah I have no problems with anything that Frank said to Mirai. She is a big girl and needs to be able to handle being treated like an adult.

On a different note, if I was the parent of a promising skater (I'm not) and was shopping for high level coaches, I would consider the way that certain coaches interact with their skaters. If I knew my child was extremely self-motivated, I may choose a more laid back coach. But if I knew my child needed tough love and would benefit from that, I would take them to a more stern coach.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Take a step back and stop being so worked up about it. (Gee, are you sure you are not a fanboy? You sound as emotional as any.)

Fanboy of any individual skatER? Hell no.

Fanboy of skatING in general? Well, one could make an argument.

Wanting to "skate one's best" is not equivalent to not admitting that one wants to win, or pretending one doesn't want to win.

By default, no. But some skaters *cough*Kwan*cough* used the phrase as a smokescreen when asked about their goals at various competitions when it was obvious (to me at least) that they wanted more than that. Sorry, but that's something I feel strongly about, and that won't change. (I will give MK this, though- at least she would admit to "going for gold" whenever the Olympics rolled around. Ironically, it ended up being the one event she never won.)

Skaters might say that for a number of reasons. Here are two:
- Someone who feels that she does not have a realistic shot at the podium (or Gold) might say that because that's the best she could actually hope for.
- Someone like YuNa who can win without always skating perfectly may want to reach for something besides just the win - "her best" is actually striving for more.

I would argue that EVERY competitor wants to skate his or her best. By doing so, naturally, you maximize your chances of winning. No?

Yes, if you are a lower-level skater, winning may not necessarily be within reach. But a medal might be within reach...or a top 5, or top 10 finish...at the lower levels, I would argue that in most cases, such goals would replace "wanting to win", although of course everybody would like that sooner or later.

Some lesser-known US skater (was it Sam Cesario?) said that she wanted to break into the top 6 at Nationals. THAT is another variant of the "I want to win" mantra, but for a lower-level skater who has not finished near that high before. It's the same as a top competitor saying "I want to win". She may have also said she wanted to skate her best- don't remember, but the point remains that every skater has at least SOME sort of placement goal in mind. All I'm saying is that it's OK not to be shy. Seems like some of these younger girls are getting it.



But wanting to skate one's best, as one's primary goal, is something that is separate from outcome--the outcome being something that few skaters can control.

Yes, you control how you skate, and the judges decide the outcome. But...if you're a top competitor...you skated near your best...and judges put you 3rd...would you be satisfied? Maybe other competitors outskated you...or you got marked down in presentation...but you skated your best! Are you still TRULY happy?

That's what I'm getting at here. There's more to it than just "skating your best". At least IMO.
 

BackStage Barbie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Yes, you control how you skate, and the judges decide the outcome. But...if you're a top competitor...you skated near your best...and judges put you 3rd...would you be satisfied? Maybe other competitors outskated you...or you got marked down in presentation...but you skated your best! Are you still TRULY happy?

That's what I'm getting at here. There's more to it than just "skating your best". At least IMO.

I'll agree with this and Rachael Flatt after the short program at Nationals this year is a perfect example of that. She skated a new short program, arguably one of the best skates she's ever had in my opinion, and the look on her face said that she thought she was going to lead after the short. When her scores were posted, here eyes lit up when she saw the PCS, but her high definitely dropped when she saw that she was in third. She definitely skated near her best and the judges put her in third, so though she fulfilled the "I want to skate my best" mantra, she was not winning.
 

ivy

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Yes, you control how you skate, and the judges decide the outcome. But...if you're a top competitor...you skated near your best...and judges put you 3rd...would you be satisfied? Maybe other competitors outskated you...or you got marked down in presentation...but you skated your best! Are you still TRULY happy?

We could ask Mirai or Joannie how they felt after the Olympics - my money would be on 'truly happy', but that's just my guess. And that seems like a good response - even for a competitive skater.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I think Michelle was notoriously guarded and tended to speak almost tritely rather than reveal the depth of her will to win. You could interpret that as her wanting to let her skating speak for her, or as the traditional parlance of skaters, or as her parents telling her to mind her manners. (They used to make her send thank-you notes for interviews.) Kristi Yamaguchi was the same way. When she was an eligible skater, she would give interviews that were just this side of banal.

Neither of these intelligent ladies was dull in real life. They just didn't care to converse about how hard they worked to seize victory. So? Everyone has a different approach. And in skating, for whatever reason, the style is to speak softly but carry a big jump, as it were. Skating isn't pro football or boxing or that awful kind of wrestling where the guys wear hair extensions and bellow like Visigoths about killing the opponent. You can watch that on TV a lot more often than you see skating if you really need to see unbridled ambition. I'm happy with the skaters smiling and pretending that they're just here to "go out there and have fun."
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
We could ask Mirai or Joannie how they felt after the Olympics - my money would be on 'truly happy', but that's just my guess. And that seems like a good response - even for a competitive skater.

... respectfully, I don't think "truly happy" really would be an accurate take on how Rochette felt after the Olympics.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Hmm. Well, I'm going to remember this discussion the next time someone rakes Sasha over the coals for daring to declare that yes, she wanted to win. When she came back last year, how many posters were on about how "Sasha only wants to win." "She doesn't actually love skating" "She only wants to win." "She won't actually follow through on her comeback unless she thinks she can win." My response was always "yeah, she wants to win, so? They all want to win." But apparently for certain skaters, it's not okay with fans - and you know who you are :unsure: - to say so.

Evan is also sometimes criticized for "only wanting to win."

Anyway, I like hearing skaters declare they want to win once in a while. :yes: But if they choose not to I guess it doesn't lessen my appreciation of them as competitors or skaters, when I think about it.

Olympia: I agree. Michelle was not the most engaging interviewing (still isn't really). However, she was practically the most engaging thing ever to move across the ice so who cares? And her desire to win always came across the moment she took the ice.

Alissa has her own personality. She seems like a quietly graceful person off ice - and that's how she skates. Personally, I love it. But I get that some people don't.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Hmm. Well, I'm going to remember this discussion the next time someone rakes Sasha over the coals for daring to declare that yes, she wanted to win. When she came back last year, how many posters were on about how "Sasha only wants to win." "She doesn't actually love skating" "She only wants to win." "She won't actually follow through on her comeback unless she thinks she can win." My response was always "yeah, she wants to win, so? They all want to win."

Pre-2003 Cohen was very determined, very candid about her ambitions and I liked that. However, about her attempted "return" last year- she DID toss around that lame "just want to skate my best" mantra like most other skaters. She got a lot of flack earlier and I suppose that helped push her to tone it down a bit.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
A newbie to Worlds would want to skate his/her best.

A second try at Worlds would want to podium from what he/she learned from the first experience (that includes a gold)

A third try at Worlds would want to win, and have a standard retirement speech ready.

For the poster viewing the comp might say like me He/She made a statement. Think Jason Brown.
 

Pixie Cut

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Not skating, but I remember gymnast Dominique Dawes being yelled at by her coach. He snapped, "You loused it up again!" at her then walked off, leaving her in tears.

Dominique Dawes was coached by a woman. Last year, when the 2000 Olympic team received their bronze medals, Dawes went over and gave her medal to her former coach. There was a lot of love there.

As for coaches berating their skaters, I think most are pretty restrained at events that are being captured by TV cameras. You want to see the beat down parade, go to regionals or sectionals.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
ooh, that's right, we got a medal for the Sydney Olympics. Sometimes fate really does give us do-overs.

I always loved Dawes, but I don't remember that moment. I'll have to go back and look it up.

The TV point you make is interesting. I often feel it's so invasive for those poor skaters to have the camera on them in tight close-up when they're getting awful marks. But as you've just pointed out, maybe there's an advantage. If the whole world is watching, it's not just the skater who has to behave; it's also the coach. Hmmm!
 

Pixie Cut

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
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Joined
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