I was at Canadians in 2005, and I remember Joanne McLeod was extremely upset with Sandhu and briefly let him have it when he came off the ice. It's the only K&C anger scene I can remember at the moment.
I was at Canadians in 2005, and I remember Joanne McLeod was extremely upset with Sandhu and briefly let him have it when he came off the ice. It's the only K&C anger scene I can remember at the moment.
I'm sure most coaches are pretty competitive people too. And we're not robots, and sometimes emotions get the best of us, but experienced coaches should be able to keep it together in the KnC.
I just don't see how being angry or upset when your skater gets off the ice is constructive. If anything it would make me more nervous as a skater if I made a mistake and knew I was going get a upset comment from my coach soon after I got off the ice. More nervous - another mistake, even more nervous, yet another mistake. That's a train heading in the wrong direction. I'm sure skaters and their coaches watch the performances dozens of times after a competition - save the criticism till then. I wonder if it's partly generational, and younger coaches will be less likely to act out - though maybe still be sulky (a la Orser). I think of John Nick's as being a bit snappy sometimes, but maybe I'm remembering wrong?
It also seems partly cultural, what the audience and the skater will accept. Do Japanese coaches have mini tantrums in the KnC?
I don't see the "creating the same female skater" assuming you mean he's trying to create replica Kwan's, I don't see that in Mirai and I certainly don't see that in Kostner (is she still with Frank?)Originally Posted by SeaniBu
Just checking but did you mean to write Evan (as in Lysacek?) because while he was coached by Frank, Sasha never was - she was coached by John Nicks!
Ant
yeah, Mirai doesn't remind me of Michelle much at all. Nobody reminds me of Michelle, really. She was unique. Mirai doesn't even have the same moves as Michelle.
p.s. no, carolina is no longer with Frank.
Whether the mistakes snowball or not has little to do with the coach's demeanor post skate and has everything to do with a skater's preparedness and their ability to stay focused and in the moment of the performance, even after a mistake. This goes back to mental toughness and competitive fire. If the skater is focused back on the booboo, they will make another and so on, there's no time to think that "coach X is going to be angry when I get done since I missed the Y".
How a coach reacts post skate really has more to do with their personality and not what generation they are from. Most coaches try and keep it positive right after the skate since most skaters come off focused on their errors (even if they aren't noticeable). Sometimes that's just not possible.
Overall I agree with that, the individual it the most deciding factor, but the way adults are interacting with youth is changing. I was brought up in a time when children were meant to be seen and not heard. Most people in the US wouldn't accept that premise now.
ETA - also I agree that most coaches, most of the time, do great job keeping their emotions in check - probably better then I would - this threads seems to be about those times they don't
Last edited by ivy; 02-08-2011 at 12:21 PM.
Skaters in the "past 5+ years there about. Sasha was just a good well known example that on the ice does not seems as "approachable" as when she is off it. This to has changed now that I have seen her professional performances, she is better than she was i.m.o. At the same time I admire her / them. I feel there are personalities ON ICE being coached by him that do not have a "ring of genuine" as others. Some skaters / people seem to be more subjective to this than others - more cause AND effect. Not 100% of them though.
Really the more I have thought about this it seems hypocritical to ask a skater to contain their emotions (no crying) and not be able to themselves. Miria to me has changed severily where the cute personality is forced rather than the way it used to feel. Again my interpretation. It could just be her growing up or I am completely wrong, but I do see this in others of his - NOT MK (I thought I designated her as a difference rather than a current or one who has switched to him)she was with him from her "beginnings" and some of the actions I know she took were she did what she wanted regardless. That is one of the things that separates her from others that use him. Or better said, he could not form MK as much as she formed herself and used him, others he is coaching are more prone to be formed by him rather than use him so it APPEARS to me. ~ Carolina is an exception to this as I can tell but there are "others" who do not seem to be. ~ reideration "others" meaning not all but seems to be. And Carolina is now with Michael Huth as far as I know.
Agreed, not sure if I am the reason Mirai got compared to MK, but I thought I was clear when I said "before they hit the public eye" as MK was with him as she gained a popularity status. This would be exclusive in my comment to ones who switched to him. Otherwise I could not state there is a difference because there would be nothing to compare it to.
Sorry I was not more clear if this is due to my comment.
e.t.ask, how people feel about Yuka as a coach in comparison, who had no notable interaction with Carol. And I would also like to know more about John and Silvia if anyone knows.
Last edited by SeaniBu; 02-08-2011 at 12:59 PM.
Well I just wanted to post a comment in support of Frank Carroll, whom seems to be getting run over, lol, seriously I like his coaching style, as I do John Nicks, Tom Z., Priscilla Hill, et al. The only one that makes me feel a tad uncomfortable is Galina Zmievskaya, but that's because I saw the way that she was on Johnny's reality show last year. Mayhap my mind would change as well if I saw the coaching styles of the aforementioned previous coaches on a reality show too. :D
But back to Mr. Carroll, he's known to have taught in the same manner he himself was taught from the great Maribel Vinson Owen (9-time US National Champion in Singles, 6-time US National Champion in Pairs, 2-time World Medalist, and the 1932 Olympic Bronze Medalist in Ladies Singles). And I honestly see nothing wrong with it. It's all about respect, something that seems to be lacking in each successive generation, nowadays one reads about how elders are being abused on a daily basis, plastered all over the media is everything targeted toward youth, age is something seen as ugly/to be avoided at all costs.
Anyhow, that's how I see it, irregardless of what happened in the K&C. Lol, what they should have a reality show about is the induction/training into the United States Army. If you think the K&C is bad, that ain't nothing compared to the former!
Surprised at the comparison of the Army and FS ...wow? However I 'spose that I could make the comment to my daughter, "you think that paper cut hurts try getting your arm chopped off." ??? relevant? Due to the "root of relevant" I would have to say it is not. Relevant derives from having a comparable experience.Well I just wanted to post a comment in support of Frank Carroll, whom seems to be getting run over, lol, seriously I like his coaching style, as I do John Nicks, Tom Z., Priscilla Hill, et al. The only one that makes me feel a tad uncomfortable is Galina Zmievskaya, but that's because I saw the way that she was on Johnny's reality show last year. Mayhap my mind would change as well if I saw the coaching styles of the aforementioned previous coaches on a reality show too. :D
But back to Mr. Carroll, he's known to have taught in the same manner he himself was taught from the great Maribel Vinson Owen (9-time US National Champion in Singles, 6-time US National Champion in Pairs, 2-time World Medalist, and the 1932 Olympic Bronze Medalist in Ladies Singles). And I honestly see nothing wrong with it. It's all about respect, something that seems to be lacking in each successive generation, nowadays one reads about how elders are being abused on a daily basis, plastered all over the media is everything targeted toward youth, age is something seen as ugly/to be avoided at all costs.
Anyhow, that's how I see it, irregardless of what happened in the K&C. Lol, what they should have a reality show about is the induction/training into the United States Army. If you think the K&C is bad, that ain't nothing compared to the former!
Frank is good but he might be loosing it so to speak. Respect is something that can be lost do to the effect of said actions that coincidentally come from a result of those actions. I told my mom to stop driving no matter how well she "knew" how her ability was not there to due so late in her life. Shared society.
Karma of a Generation might be an attempt to place the blame for this on the new generation which is a product of the prior generation, so ... that is the result. I also agree there is a lack of respect yet I do not hold persons who are younger than say 20 responsible for providing the correct guidance to themselves. It is not as though they can look back and say, "wow that worked so well for the last generation we should do it too." Contrary in life yet very relevant to sports. Inadvertently it would also be safe to say this is why I also had disregard for the prior generations activities and choose not to listen to them either but did want to skate like Curry, Cousins or Santi. Taking this into consideration it is a wonder how a young skater can be influenced by anything other than the other skaters close to their generation opposed to the coach themselves and what they accomplished. Normal most coaches do not have as exemplary record in their own trophy cabinet as the skaters who achieve a greater. Common and logical.
It was disrespectful for a "BIG NAME NOW" skater to go and sign up for a division when her coach told her not to but this action had great benefit for her.
Inspiration, example and encouragement should accompany youth REALISTICALLY AND DECOROUSLY. And however the notion that there are no losers came along is also devoid of good reason. SO there is a good point of why, because neither one is practiced with balance and respect. Frank's feelings are totally valid, yet the action that come from said feelings are detrimental and counterproductive to his desire. Humans are evolving. If this is a sport that has "presentation" as an definitive factor than that needs to be practiced by the coach as well. I think there needs to be some responsibility of the coach when the skater fails to live up to expectations - "it takes a village" ya know.
Respect has to be maintained. Likely this is a event that Frank will learn from or feel the wrong time or place. Yet he could also just not care what anyone thinks ( funny that my generation was taught this stupid ideology after the age of 10 in a SHARED planet) and just keep loosing respect.
And *bow* to his accomplishments but it is a little late to be conforming FS into the world of the military.
Last edited by SeaniBu; 02-08-2011 at 02:55 PM.
We must face the fact that most of the fans of figure skating are ladies, and they hold to a different standard of sports behavior than what men would hold. To me, it is not the end of the sport if a coach berates his student unintentionally in the public's eye. If it bothers the skater, which is more important, then he has the option to switch coaches, otherwise the skater may practice harder.
Totally correct imo as always. The issue for me is it was public display, and maybe the fact it is in my nature to be a guy who does not like seeing girls or youth in general treated this way that bothers me and classify it as unnecessary and completely unprofessional. But look at what we let hockey and foot ball and Baseball and .... well. this is a relegated factor in occupations and I think it should be the same way for sports. It is perpetuation of " it is OK to yell and have no control over your emotions. Just as I agree with Frank there is probably to much crying in FS as well. It takes a germ to create a illness.
Not even going to decipher that tirade up above.
Regards the topic, BFD if somebody gets yelled at in the K&C. If they can't handle it, leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Btw, I for one don't put Yuka on some sort of pedestal. :P But hey she's young, most people remember her from her skating days, and she's Asian, whereas Frank is just an old white man.
I think it is more OK for a coach to have "choice words" for their skater in the KnC than for a skater to go catatonic, either when they have a good skate or a bad skate. Although one might be overflowing with excitement after a good skate (Oksana gushing with tears in 1994), or languishing in disappointment (Sikharulidze walked away from the KnC in 1997, after plummeting to 9th), I wish skaters would exhibit more comportment while awaiting their scores, or receiving their scores.
On the subject of coaches who sit with their students in subdued silence after a bad skate, like Orser with Adam Rippon -- that doesn't necessarily have to be a negative. Both skater and coach know they have work to do before the next competition, so they are sitting there shoulder to shoulder glumly taking what they have coming to them in terms of scores.
I don't see any reason for a coach to have to come up with a phony pep talk about, that's OK, keep your chin up, we'll get 'em next time.
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