Ashley Wagner

Layfan · Feb 8, 2011

Ashley just posted a new vlog where she discusses her season and her medical problems. Some of them sounded pretty scary.
I saw it on Aunt Joyce. (I can never get those Universal vids)

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2011/02/this-and-that_08.html#more

So, what do you guys think? Will Ashley ever make another world team? What does she need to do?

She says she's excited about working on her technique during the off season and will be working on a new SP, something more upbeat.

Personally, I hope she gets new long, too. Ashley strikes me as a cool and unique individual and I don't think Malaguena shows who she is very much. I hope she does something modern next year.

dorispulaski · Feb 8, 2011

After each of the last couple seasons there has been a new crop of excuses and promises to improve her technique.

And she still flutzes, two foots jumps, and leans over and pumps her back like a speed skater to build up speed.

So she still needs to fix that stuff. It's hard work for sure.

pangtongfan · Feb 8, 2011

I like Ashley but it would seem to be a huge surprise if she can ever make a World team again. She has never been quite good enough even at her best. At the 2008 Nationals she had the performances of her life with even a triple lutz-triple loop combo clean in both programs and still came only 3rd behind Nagasu with major mistakes and Flatt whose only asset is consistency yet still beat a clean Wagner with an outrageously hard jump combo. In all her years of skating she has never been higher than 3rd at a semi major event like Nationals, World Juniors, Four Continents. And now Nagasu, Flatt, and Czisny are not only well ahead of her but Agnes and Gao have blown past her, and there are other youngsters nipping at her heels. Even if Czisny and Flatt retire soon the odds are still stacked against her. Her short program at Nationals was not as bad as some people said, she barely two footed one jump and had one shaky landing yet missed the final flight. She wasnt going to be up there at Nationals this year even if she had skated great in both programs, and that is despite only Czisny of the top women skated great.

I would give her better chances to make a World team than say Zhang in the future, but it still is very unlikely.

BackStage Barbie · Feb 8, 2011

I feel like Ashley has never found the right programs to showcase her personality and her artistry. From the programs she's performed in recent years, she seems like a stuffy prude. But after listening to her in interviews and watching her vlog, I realize that she has a spunky and upbeat personality which I would love to see her translate onto the ice.

pangtongfan · Feb 9, 2011

What she needs to improve- definitely her jump technique alot, her spins could be better, her artistry needs some real work. Basically most things need improvement if she ever going to make a U.S world team again, in addition to consistency of course. And what the heck happened to the triple lutz-triple loop she used to do, she really needs that again to be competitive even in the U.S at this stage.

Johar · Feb 9, 2011

I hope next year she has a big breakout season like Czisny.

Layfan · Feb 9, 2011

BackStage Barbie said:
I feel like Ashley has never found the right programs to showcase her personality and her artistry. From the programs she's performed in recent years, she seems like a stuffy prude. But after listening to her in interviews and watching her vlog, I realize that she has a spunky and upbeat personality which I would love to see her translate onto the ice.

I agree - she needs both. The fact that its seems she might keep her Malaguena LP tells me she does not really see who she is as skater and what she really looks like on the ice. But first and foremost she needs to get out her two-footing and flutzing quirks. I don't know why the triple-triple left her but it seems to me she should work on her jump technique before trying to get it back.

SkateSkates · Feb 9, 2011

Layfan said:
I agree - she needs both. The fact that its seems she might keep her Malaguena LP tells me she does not really see who she is as skater and what she really looks like on the ice. But first and foremost she needs to get out her two-footing and flutzing quirks. I don't know why the triple-triple left her but it seems to me she should work on her jump technique before trying to get it back.

I think she will get two new programs, but she was talking about the SP the most because she had it for 2 years and probably wanted to get rid of it!

Trewyn · Feb 10, 2011

As a die-hard Ashley-fan, the past couple seasons have been really hard to watch. I still love watching her, though; there's something about her personality and joy on the ice that really speaks to me. But she needs more consistency first. Her jumps can be big and impressive but the two-footing makes them look weak. I also feel she needs a new artistic approach. I haven't loved any of her programs other than her 2008-2009 short program. OUATIA wasn't bad but keeping it for two seasons in a row was a mistake. Polovetsian Dances had some really interesting moments but I also feel that she needs better. Spartacus and Malaguena did nothing for me. I'd prefer het junior-ish Jealousy program to those.

Her 2008-2009 program by Philip Mills was stunning because it *flowed*. She tends to be a little frantic as she skates, and Mills was able to channel that in a stunning program with great flow. She needs more of that but something more personal.

Success stories such as Alissa's and Joannie's make it clear that you can't write someone off just because they struggle with consistency and are over twenty. But yeah; I understand that people are highly sceptical. I am too, in a way.

I'm sad her season is over but I know she's capable of re-inventing herself as a skater if she's motivated enough.

CARA · Feb 10, 2011

Maybe Ashley should change her coach?

How about getting the jump basics from the "miracle worker" Yuka Sato? :laugh:

mskater93 · Feb 10, 2011

Ashley has a similar problem to Alissa in that her two footing problem is related to her jump timing in competition. Alissa's under rotation problem was mostly due to the same issues. She picks/jumps earlier than she does in practice in her competitive programs which is throwing her conversion timing and landing timing off just a little. Perhaps some time with Jason D who is the one who broke down Alissa's jumps and timing and has gotten her to get everything back under control? We have a coach near us who is a technical guru, maybe some time with him would help, too?

Layfan · Feb 10, 2011

mskater93 said:
Ashley has a similar problem to Alissa in that her two footing problem is related to her jump timing in competition. Alissa's under rotation problem was mostly due to the same issues. She picks/jumps earlier than she does in practice in her competitive programs which is throwing her conversion timing and landing timing off just a little. Perhaps some time with Jason D who is the one who broke down Alissa's jumps and timing and has gotten her to get everything back under control? We have a coach near us who is a technical guru, maybe some time with him would help, too?

That's really interesting. I always love hearing about what issues skaters really have with their jumps rather than just "nerves."

mskater93 · Feb 10, 2011

Layfan said:
That's really interesting. I always love hearing about what issues skaters really have with their jumps rather than just "nerves."

If you watch the jumps she does well as opposed to the ones she two foots, you can see that she picks sooner on the two footed jumps which means (to me) that she isn't getting full bend and reach on the pick = not fully up over the landing side.

Layfan · Feb 10, 2011

mskater93 said:
If you watch the jumps she does well as opposed to the ones she two foots, you can see that she picks sooner on the two footed jumps which means (to me) that she isn't getting full bend and reach on the pick = not fully up over the landing side.

what does it mean when you say "sooner." Does that mean sooner in the music/program or sooner while she's getting into the jump?

R.D. · Feb 10, 2011

pangtongfan said:
I like Ashley but it would seem to be a huge surprise if she can ever make a World team again. She has never been quite good enough even at her best. At the 2008 Nationals she had the performances of her life with even a triple lutz-triple loop combo clean in both programs and still came only 3rd behind Nagasu with major mistakes and Flatt whose only asset is consistency yet still beat a clean Wagner with an outrageously hard jump combo. In all her years of skating she has never been higher than 3rd at a semi major event like Nationals, World Juniors, Four Continents. And now Nagasu, Flatt, and Czisny are not only well ahead of her but Agnes and Gao have blown past her, and there are other youngsters nipping at her heels. Even if Czisny and Flatt retire soon the odds are still stacked against her. Her short program at Nationals was not as bad as some people said, she barely two footed one jump and had one shaky landing yet missed the final flight. She wasnt going to be up there at Nationals this year even if she had skated great in both programs, and that is despite only Czisny of the top women skated great.

So it seems.

I refuse to completely count anyone out, though. Who would have thought Czisny would still be kicking the butt of some really talented up-and-comers now? It's not over for Wagner by any means...unless she herself throws in the towel. Her major problem is the SP...once she can conquer that, she will be right up there contending for the World/Oly Team. She seems to know this- she acknowledges it in her vlog- so it just depends on how she deals with the issue. But her jumps need a little work, too.

Having said the above, if she does not work her butt off at the problems that NEED to be tackled...or if she does but makes no significant headway- she WILL be left behind. Guaranteed.

Another problem is our only having 2 World Team spots. If we had our usual 3, Wagner would have been an Olympian.

pangtongfan · Feb 10, 2011

The U.S women havent had 3 spots since 2008 so it is no longer "usual" for them until proven otherwise. If you cant place top 2 at Nationals, which Ashley has never done unfortunately, you probably wont go to Worlds/Olympics these days.

The thing with Czisny is since 2006 the judges always showed they were willing to score her extremely high, higher than any other U.S lady other than Cohen in 06, if she simply stood her jumps up. Heck at Nationals in 06 she blew 2 jumps in the short program and still ended up over Meissner IIRC who missed only 1, and in 2007 she won the long program at Nationals after bombing the short. Wagner I dont really see any indication of this. I already mentioned how she skated out of her mind in 2008 with an incredibly hard jump combination which quickly dissapeared and still came below a flawed Nagasu and Flatt.

And I dont know why people keep talking as if her short program this year was a disaester. She two footed the landing of one jump was her only real mistake. She would have probably been only 6th in the short even skating it cleanly. She just has to get alot better and hope somehow she can get her rep back up to U.S judges where she is seen as a real threat.

Binthere · Feb 10, 2011

Such a terrific athlete and overall skater. She is beautiful, fit, expressive, dynamic. It would seem maybe "wanting results" less and skating with confidence and joy more, could help. At this level, it is so much a mental game. When "the pressure is off" (disappointing short, nothing to lose by just going for it long) she seems to thrive.

Agree with someone who posted that something modern would suit her well. I think she is unique amongst the ladies in this way. Wish her a year of good health and great strengthening of her belief in herself.

BackStage Barbie · Feb 10, 2011

R.D. said:
So it seems.

I refuse to completely count anyone out, though. Who would have thought Czisny would still be kicking the butt of some really talented up-and-comers now? It's not over for Wagner by any means...unless she herself throws in the towel. Her major problem is the SP...once she can conquer that, she will be right up there contending for the World/Oly Team. She seems to know this- she acknowledges it in her vlog- so it just depends on how she deals with the issue. But her jumps need a little work, too.

Having said the above, if she does not work her butt off at the problems that NEED to be tackled...or if she does but makes no significant headway- she WILL be left behind. Guaranteed.

Another problem is our only having 2 World Team spots. If we had our usual 3, Wagner would have been an Olympian.

Please don't take this the wrong way because I love Ashley and I don't think that any one person is responsible for losing and failing to regain the third ladies spot. However, the last year the US had 3 ladies slots at Worlds was 2008. Meissner finished 7th, Liang finished 10th, and Ashley Wagner finished 16th. It was a combination of all three of these poor finishes that lost us a third spot, but had Ashley (or Bebe) finished 6th or higher, we would have had 3 spots for 2009, and possibly for the 2010 Olympics. Again, I'm not blaming the loss of the 3rd Olympic slot on Ashley, but I am saying that every top US lady over the past 4 years has had a hand in either losing or failing to secure that third spot. Therefore I don't think it is particularly constructive to say what may have been if we could've should've would've had the third slot. I hope and pray that our ladies place high enough to secure a third spot this year, but I'm of the mindset that when our ladies can prove to international judges that they deserve the third slot, they'll get it back.

Layfan · Feb 10, 2011

BackStage Barbie said:
Please don't take this the wrong way because I love Ashley and I don't think that any one person is responsible for losing and failing to regain the third ladies spot. However, the last year the US had 3 ladies slots at Worlds was 2008. Meissner finished 7th, Liang finished 10th, and Ashley Wagner finished 16th. It was a combination of all three of these poor finishes that lost us a third spot, but had Ashley (or Bebe) finished 6th or higher, we would have had 3 spots for 2009, and possibly for the 2010 Olympics. Again, I'm not blaming the loss of the 3rd Olympic slot on Ashley, but I am saying that every top US lady over the past 4 years has had a hand in either losing or failing to secure that third spot. Therefore I don't think it is particularly constructive to say what may have been if we could've should've would've had the third slot. I hope and pray that our ladies place high enough to secure a third spot this year, but I'm of the mindset that when our ladies can prove to international judges that they deserve the third slot, they'll get it back.

very sensible post :thumbsup:

R.D. · Feb 10, 2011

BackStage Barbie said:
Again, I'm not blaming the loss of the 3rd Olympic slot on Ashley, but I am saying that every top US lady over the past 4 years has had a hand in either losing or failing to secure that third spot. Therefore I don't think it is particularly constructive to say what may have been if we could've should've would've had the third slot.

One must understand that I'm not making excuses for Wagner. Yes, in many ways she contributed to the loss of that 3rd spot by being on that ill-fated 2008 team (and doing so poorly). But same for Meissner and Liang, both which disappeared promptly afterward.

It's always somewhat remarkable to me that the skater that ends up doing poorly tends to end up getting what's coming to her. May sound harsh, but consider that Wagner just missed the Oly team- after being 16th at 2008 worlds and losing that 3rd spot in the first place. Last year, Nagasu nearly singlehandedly fails to get the 3rd spot back by making silly mistakes in her free...and here she goes, 3rd place at next year's nats and off the team. Not to mention Czisny doing so poorly at 2010 Nats...man.

Ashley Wagner

Layfan

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

BackStage Barbie

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

Johar

Layfan

SkateSkates

Trewyn

CARA

mskater93

Layfan

mskater93

Layfan

R.D.

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

Binthere

BackStage Barbie

Layfan

R.D.

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