The best triple axels, 3A jumpers, and some other random stats.

The best triple axels, 3A jumpers, and some other random stats of the 2010/11 season

The best triple axels, 3A jumpers, and some other random stats.

Caveat one: The following competitions were considered – GP series, GPF, Euros (short and long program, NOT qualifying). No National events were considered (mainly due to laziness and rationalization)

Eventually, I’ll update with Four Continents and Worlds.

Caveat two: When it comes to the statistics.

• A downgraded 3A (that is <<) is NOT considered a landed 3A, but does count as an attempt
• A URed 3A (<) is considered a landed 3A (presuming it was ... well, landed)
• Popped jumps ARE NOT considered 3A attempts as I didn’t feel like double checking which were actual doubles and which were triples that became doubles. Even if I knew that they were supposed to be triples, I discounted them
• A jump that I called “landed well” is one with 0 GOE or greater
• Technically, a jump can have -3 GOE without being a fall. Conversely, a jump can get something higher than -3 GOE and still have a fall. I have yet to see that EVER and automatically assumed that -3 overall meant fall and it counts only as an attempt, not a landed jump element

Okay, so here are the top ten triple axel jumpers, based on average GOE gained.

1. Nobunari Oda – Average GOE: 1.22
2. Florent Amodio – Average GOE: 0.86
3. Jeremy Abbott – Average GOE: 0.82
4. Michal Brezina – Average GOE: 0.81
5. Daisuke Murakami – Average GOE: 0.81
6. Jialiang Wu – Average GOE: 0.76
7. Sergei Voronov – Average GOE: 0.71
8. Yuzuru Hanyu – Average GOE: 0.69
9. Ivan Tretiakov – Average GOE: 0.57
10. Chafik Besseghier – Average GOE: 0.57

Kozuka is 13th w/ 0.40
Takahashi is 21st w/ -0.19
Chan is 35th w/ -0.95

and yet I still prefer Kurt Browning's to all of those listed.

I prefer Tonya Harding's triple axel.

Midori Ito's. :>

I prefer Ilia Kulik´s 3A, especially the one out of spread eagle. It came out of nowhere!

Pogue, thanks for your efforts! An interesting list. Of course we all immediately think of our faves through the years (and I agree about Browning, Kulik, Harding, and Ito as list-toppers), but your point is so fascinating: our faves of today, the skaters so many of us think are at the top of the heap, are waaaay down on this year's points list: Kozuka, Chan, and Takahashi. Isn't that remarkable. I guess this proves that their excellence is more all-around. Nice that Oda is at the top, though. I think his jumps are taller than he is sometimes.

Don't forget Boitano's.

I liked all the 3 axels mentioned above (with special for Ito and Harding)....but didn't Eldredge have some spectacular triple axels too?

ImaginaryPogue said:

Okay, so here are the top ten triple axel jumpers, based on average GOE gained.

Click to expand...

So is this an average of GOEs for "landed" triple axels, or for attempts?

I.e., is a measure of quality or consistency?

For my own interest, here's the list of personal best 3As this season, including only those with GOE more than 0:

ODA......................11.64 GPF LP
CONTESTI..............10.64 COR LP
AMODIO................10.50 GPF LP
FERNANDEZ............10.07 SC SP
MAHBANOOZADEH....10.07 SA LP
MURAKAMI..............10.06 SA LP*
TAKAHASI..............10.60 GPF LP
VENER...................10.21 GPF LP
BREZINA..................9.93 EURO LP
HANYU....................9.93 NHK SP
KELEMEN..................9.80 EURO LP
ABBOTT...................9.79 COR SP
KOZUKA...................9.79 TEB LP
MACHIDA..................9.79 COC SP
MENSHOV.................9.79 EURO SP
PREAUBERT...............9.78 SC SP*
TEN, J......................9.64 SC LP
CHAN.......................9.50 GPF SP
GACHINSKI................9.50 SC SP
KVDP.......................9.50 SA LP
RIPPON....................9.50 SC SP
WU..........................9.50 NHK LP
MINER......................9.36 COC LP
SONG.......................9.36 TEB SP
TREKIAKOV................9.36 COR LP
BESSEGHIER..............9.21 TEB SP
NANRIi......................9.07 SC SP
RAYA.......................9.07 EURO LP
JOUBERT...................8.93 EURO LP
LIEBERS....................8.93 EURO SP
ALVAREZ...................8.86 EURO LP
REYNOLDS.................8.79 TEB SP

*with bonus.

During the compiling process, I noticed Oda is no doubt the best 3A jumper, as can be verified by his high average as calculated by Pogue. His 3A is both consistent and beautiful while some with high PB are not so consistent. Jeremy has a pretty dependable 3A and Wu is surprisingly good, mainly because he is otherwise not notable. The GOE averages of Voronov, Besseghier and Tekiakov don't mean much because of their scarcities whereas Chan's may be undervalued by average because he has improved them as the season progresses and he got over the traumas of debuting his quads.

eta: gkelly, I think you can get most answers you want if you look at both Progue's list and mine, except for the non inclusion of popped jumps which are not used in averaging.

Among upcoming World competitors not included on this list, Bradley has a huge 3axel when he lands them. His height should encourage some +GOE, although his shoddy skating skills and the lack of transitions in and out may hamper that.

ImaginaryPogue, I notice you didn't include junior men, who had a lot of 3axels among them, too. The notable guy who competed on the international junior circuit who will be at senior worlds is Richard Dornbush, the accidental US silver medalist. And his 3axel record is extremely swingy. To attempt to compile the stats for him using your methodology, I counted up his solo 3axels landed in the junior grand prix circuit. And the average GOE is -.69. *sadtrombone* And that's not including a 6th attempt where he splatted on it.

However, when he does land it, the judges aren't shy with the +GOE. His best 3axel at the JGPF got him a +1.83. Add in the fact that it was after the half minute mark, the jump came out to 11.18 points and would've put him 2nd on SkateFiguring's personal best list! Without the highlight distribution bonus, the jump would've come out to 10.33, which would put him in 5th after Amodio.

Including his 3axel attempts at US nationals, Dornbush accumulated negative GOE on 5 out of 8 attempts at the jump. This is not a jump he owns.

Just for completeness, because Bradley and Dornbush had no senior international numbers for this year, I've included the US Nationals numbers for the 3 Americans going to 4CC's and the 3 Americans going to Worlds:


Bradley
SP 9.93
LP 8.93
LP in bonuse 3A3t 14.15

Dornbush
SP slightly negative GOE
LP 3A3t 13.89
LP 3A 10.92 (bonus)

Miner
SP 9.64
LP 3A2t 11.33
LP 8.64

Mahbanoozadeh
SP 9.21
LP 8.93
LP 3A2t 11.18 in the bonus

Abbott
SP 9.79
LP 3A2T 10.90
LP one with negative GOE

Rippon
SP negative GOE
LP 10.49 in the bonus
LP one not up to snuff

gkelly, the GOE is based on attempts - if it was considered a 3A or ur'ed.

I'm still working on this list, but here are some of the high scoring ones. Skatefiguring, you have Kozuka's triple-triple combination. He only score 8.64 @ COC SP.

1. Nobunari Oda, GPF LP, 1st. GOE: 2.29
2. Nobunari Oda, GPF SP. GOE: 2.29
3. Nobunari Oda, GPF LP, 2nd. GOE: 2.29
4. Samuel Contesti, CoR LP, 1st. GOE: 2.14
5. Florent Amodio
6. Daisuke Takahashi, GPF LP, 1st. GOE: 2.00
7. Nobunari Oda, SC SP. GOE: 2.00
8. Nobunari Oda
9. Nobunari Oda, SA SP. GOE: 1.86
10. Florent Amodio, TEB LP 1st. GOE: 1.86
11. Keegan Messing. JGPF SP. GOE: 1.86

Serious Business, I didn't include junior skaters because I was too lazy to look at JGP scores. The only reason Messing made the list was because I remembered him getting terrific GOE for that jump and figured I'd toss him on.

Keegan Messing rocks all kinds of awesome AK Represent! (he did a triple axel back as a novice on a VERY small patch of ice in Anchorage, AK (outdoor rink) as part of a kick off for Fur Rondy special event. Pretty impressive that jump!

I actually crunched the numbers on Messing's 3axels, because I remember them being pretty awesome, but then the average GOE he got on them was not all that great, so I didn't bother reporting it as he's not doing seniors internationally yet. But with the interest in Messing's 3axel, I went back and reexamined the numbers and found out that they are fungible...

The average GOE on his 3axel jumps on the junior circuit (two GP assignments + finals) is... 0.52. However! This includes a -2 he got on a bungled 3axel that was intended to be a combo (I can't find video of the event, so I don't know if that was ever intended to be solo or it was a combo with enough moves between jumps that the second jump was discarded). Without that, his average GOE on the 3axel is 1.024. If we go with the latter, that would put Messing on the #2 list of +GOE on the 3axel internationally!

The highest +GOE he got on the 3axel is 1.86, which he got twice, and at different competitions! This puts him in 5th place on the personal best 3axel list internationally.

Out of 8 planned solo 3axel attempts this season in competition (including US nationals this time, unlike the previous stats), Messing popped one, got negative GOE on two attempts, got 0 GOE on one, and got +GOE on 4 of them. This is his money jump.

ImaginaryPogue said:

10. Florent Amodio, TEB LP 1st. GOE: 1.83
11. Keegan Messing. JGPF LP, 1st. GOE: 1.83 (out of the top ten, but amazing for a junior skater)

Click to expand...

Messing actually got a +1.86 on his 3axel in the SP at the JGPF. He also got a +1.86 on his 3axel in the FS at JGP Romania. But even a +1.83 would have him tied for tenth place on your list.

Serious Business said:

Messing actually got a +1.86 on his 3axel in the SP at the JGPF. He also got a +1.86 on his 3axel in the FS at JGP Romania. But even a +1.83 would have him tied for tenth place on your list.

Click to expand...

Heh.

Amodio's TEB LP 3A was 1.86. And I'm reediting the post to include the corrections. Thanks!

If we look at the highest average +GOE for 3axel jumps internationally, the list goes Oda, Messing and Amodio. Basically, it helps to be a tiny guy with big jumping power to have a consistent and consistently high scoring 3axel.

I corrected Kozuka's score and placement. Thanks, IPogue.

Serious Business said:

However, when he does land it, the judges aren't shy with the +GOE. His best 3axel at the JGPF got him a +1.83. Add in the fact that it was after the half minute mark, the jump came out to 11.18 points and would've put him 2nd on SkateFiguring's personal best list! Without the highlight distribution bonus, the jump would've come out to 10.33, which would put him in 5th after Amodio.

Click to expand...

If Nationals scores are included, Dornbush will not be 2nd on PB list. Chan scored 11.35 for his 3A in the Canadian Championships LP.

Serious Business said:

This is his money jump.

Click to expand...

yeah he got his quite early. It gave him a tad bit of trouble when he had his "big" growth spurt a few years ago, but obviously he's fixed that issue... now all he needs is a little more exposure and experience... and some refining...