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Thread: What Do You Want to See at Worlds... Dance

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    IMO the problem with W/P is that although Weaver is tall, her legs are quite short, so she really doesn't have long lines. That compounds with her weak skating skills(edges and extention) make it worse. They're good doing dramatic themes or storytelling type or fast moving programs beacause their weakness can be hiden or ignored. When it comes to classic romantic and slower music that demand showing off great lines and flow, they are not in advantage. That's the difference between W/P and C/P. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing V/M. None of C/C or W/P can lure me into buying a ticket to a show yet.
    You must have strong edges and good basic skating skills to exhibit speed and power, not just the opposite - something I learned from lessons with Artur Dmitriev Sr and Evgeni Platov, both Olympic champions who had great speed and power.

  2. #152
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Ilvskating...I can't believe you're talking about W/P in your post.. anyone who's ever taken a figure drawing class could tell you Kaitlyn Weaver's proportions are well nigh perfect .
    In fact, this is one advantage W/P have always had. Though there's quite a difference in their height , she and Andrew are very similarly proportioned ,which makes it easier to achieve a good line. The critiques of her extension , edges . etc. ,which may have been credible 3 years ago , are pretty baseless now, after the considerable progress they've made.

    Vanessa and Paul , on the other hand , have always had the advantage of deep sure edges and flow and an ability to match strides due to their many years together.Their weaknesses have always been that they have stiff backs ( although in different ways) and they have poor connection with each other ( which may be more noticeable because their body types are quite dissimilar ).They have made some improvement with this in the last 2 yrs., but much more needs to be done.

    The difference between the two is the old apples and oranges example. The question is not are apples better than oranges or vice versa. The question should be is this the best apple it can be and is this the best orange it can be. Come the county fair the judges will choose whichever is the best overall example of fruit growing.
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 04-11-2011 at 12:56 PM.

  3. #153
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    Different strokes for different folks...for me Andrew's height creates a bit of a visual problem with these two - sometimes giving the impression he's leaning over Kaitlyn. And I've always thought Vanessa and Paul had an excellent connection on the ice. It's not in your face nor is it put-on, but it is there, and seems quite natural to me. It's one of the things I like about this pair.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    You must have strong edges and good basic skating skills to exhibit speed and power, not just the opposite - something I learned from lessons with Artur Dmitriev Sr and Evgeni Platov, both Olympic champions who had great speed and power.
    by fast moving I meant more in the sense of busy movements, I know there is problem with the expression, bare me for lacking of better wording. I would say that when you have strong edges and good basic skating skills usaually you can skate very fast, and effortless. But it's not a must. In the past Chinese pair skaters used to have poor edges and skating skills but they were among the fastest pairs. Just my 2 cents.

  5. #155
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    What an amazing time to be an ice dancer, especially from North America! Any of those skaters you two mention, plus many others are all capable of finishing in the top eight at worlds. Good luck to all these teams as they make their way to worlds!

    Also, I do think Weaver and Poje, more so than any of the other teams outside of the top two, have the it factor. They're not faking love, or faking chemistry, they have chemistry. While Andrew has a long way to go in perfecting his technique (they all do, including V/M--I want to see all of them skating well into their late twenties!), he reminds me a lot of a young Yevgeny Platov. Caitlin, on the other hand, reminds me of Jayne Torvill herself. She's not afraid to let him take the spotlight, because, in the end, he shares it with her. Their short dance reminds me of my favourite movie, Breakfast at Tiffany's. They look like a couple out on the town!
    Last edited by blue dog; 04-12-2011 at 04:50 PM.

  6. #156
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    I want to see Weaver and Poje improving their free dance, and taking their short dance to another level! I think their short dance is the best of the season, even better than anything produced by Zoueva's students.

  7. #157
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    I think Vanessa and Paul look a little off because Paul is almost the same size as Vanessa, although Scott Moir is barely bigger than Tessa and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I think Vanessa and Paul look a little off because Paul is almost the same size as Vanessa, although Scott Moir is barely bigger than Tessa and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
    D/W, V/M, P/B, B/S, I/K, K/K should all be added to the list of looking "off" since they also all have about the same height difference .

  9. #159
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    I'd say that P/B, B/S ,I/K have quite a height difference or at least it seems so on the ice

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    Agreed. And K/K always had issues figuring out how to match.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangos View Post
    D/W, V/M, P/B, B/S, I/K, K/K should all be added to the list of looking "off" since they also all have about the same height difference .
    It's not really the height difference, it's that Paul is quite skinny and is probably only about 10 lbs heavier than her.

  12. #162
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    blue_idealist.. you may be right, there.That could explain why I thought at first that there was a greater height difference between them than there actually is. The answer could also partly lie in the fact that they are different body types.( e.g. Paul's legs seem longer , proportionately to his height / torso length than Vanessa's do to hers. ) Their bodies don't move similarly, so they can actually be doing the same thing at the same time,but don't appear to be in perfect unison. (I'm sort of thinking out loud here.. )
    Anyway, I do see some improvement , but Paul still seems too detached from his partner, for me.

    My sister and I were discussing the esthetics of partnering the other day ...and how we hate it when having a "connection" is automatically, or exclusively equated with romantic or passionate expression . She reminded me of a quote about one of the greatest partnerships in ballet , Fonteyn and Nureyev, to the effect that there existed between the two " a sort of super human courtesy " Although it takes two to make a couple ,I believe this "courtesy" must primarily appear to emanate from the man . Look to Scott Moir as an outstanding example of this in ice dance. Everything from the inclination of his head ,to the postion of his body, to what he is projecting emotionally, either in sync , or in solo highlights, complements what his partner is doing. Not everyone will be able to do this as well as Scott , no matter how hard they work ( he has an innate ability in this area that you can see in their earliest videos ) but I'm sure Paul can be a lot better at it than he is , currently.

    Completely OT...pj had an article up on cbcsports today about P/I being in holding pattern as alternates , in which she mentioned that David Islam believes it's good to go to outside choreograhers "like Z/S"... Since P/I have not been to them before, I wondered why Z/S should be mentioned. Why not Haguenaur or D/L ,who they have been to ?.. Or is it just a mistake...PJ gets mixed reviews from me as a writer /commentator so I don't know..it could just be her using a misleading example...It could be her dropping a hint before it's time ( or she could be messing with us ) I didn't know where to put this, or if it deserved it's own thread, since it seems premature to be going off on a tangent about P/I's next year's programs now..just FYI.

    ETA; There are other interesting tid-bits as well ; http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/pjkwo...lternates.html
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 04-13-2011 at 06:23 PM.

  13. #163
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    I think its kind of a mixed up quotation sort of situation.

    What the discussion is about is that choreography for next year won't start till after Worlds-and that's over a month later than most years. The busiest choreographers, the ones who do choreography for the largest number of teams (not counting their pairs & singles work), have to be Z&S. They will have the biggest logjam.



    It will definitely be a problem, but not for V&M or D&W, for sure.

  14. #164
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    It doesn't seem too likely does it ? It's not as if Z/S will have a lot of time on their hands.. or any lack of students of their own to choreograph for. I think it's probably just some awkward writing ( but it did make me and my coffee sit up and take notice this AM )... and I did love hearing about them running out of room on their diagonal step sequence .

  15. #165
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    I would like to see (for next year) Vanessa and Paul working with Camerlengo, as well as Dean. I think he could do wonders for them, as well. I know Vanessa and Paul's coaches often post or come to Goldenskate, so I hope they read this suggestion. I think C/P are a great team, and it would be nice to see them grow into even more versatile performers.

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