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Thread: Ladies - Long Program

  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilshorty View Post
    The problem is, while I feel that the placements are correct, I feel that the judges were too generous in the scoring. Some of Mao's and Mirai's jumps were okay, but did they really all deserve positive GoE? The first 3A was huge, but the second did look UR to me. But like I said, it is what it is. The way in which the judges choose to score is not going to change and neither is my opinion.
    Well, like I've said, I didn't watch Mirai's program so I can't really tell if she did or not deserve the GOE she got. Some of Mao's jumps were good and she recieved pozitive GOE, some not, and she recieved negative ones. And she didn't try a second 3A, it was just a 2A-3T< Yes, you may be right, the scores were a bit generous, but so they were for everybody and as long as the podium is correct we don't have any reason to complain.

    Oh, and I didn't knew the judges can see if the jump is UR/DG. Thanks for that info, good to know

  2. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Lol. Why are you comparing scores from 07-08 season to now? That's one season where the judges were esp strict with GOE and PCS. If you're going to compare across seasons, then your favorite has also beaten herself several times, although her more recent performances aren't all necessarily better than those she did a few seasons ago.
    OK this is super frustrating... I typed up a lengthy response, but lost it. First, I'm confused by your bitter response, since I meant no harm in suggesting the scores here were inflated. Perhaps the reference to Yu-na at the end ticked you off, but I seriously meant that as humor (hence the smiley-face) but I guess it ain't funny. Why can't I compare 07-08 scores with this season's? They are two of the highest scoring CoP programs.

    I looked at the top five LP protocols, wasted loads of time calculating and counting and found out that 40% of the individual GOE scores were +2.0 or +3.0. One judge gave Miki all +2.0s and +3.0s for every element except her 3T. Six out of nine judges gave her +2.0 or above for every single element. Miki has no precedent of such monstrous GOE, so one can't help but question inflation. I'm starting to wonder if judges are starting to compensate for the new factoring of GOE by easily hitting those +2.0s and +3.0s which were once reserved for Yu-na's jumps, Mirai's spins and Mao's spirals (the tippy-tops of each category) and got carried away in Taipei, hence the score inflation which made Miki's no 3A, no 3-3 LP the second highest scoring LP in CoP history.

    Seriously, Miki delivered the same performance at COR, COC and GPF, but got 116, 120 and 122. Here, she got 134. That's a huge jump. Inflation? Perhaps.

  3. #438
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    And no, I'm not a Mao, Miki hater here to argue to death that their scores were undeserved. I don't give a big hoot about scores as long as the placements are right (which I believe were. Loved the podium). Just found it annoying that I couldn't even question inflation Seriously, I'm a huge Yu-na fan, but believe her 2009 Worlds, 2010 Olympic and 2010 Worlds scores were inflated. So what? All that matters is that she won gold, gold and silver, leaving behind some memorable performances that I've rewatched many times.

  4. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntBREAD View Post
    The judges can see now whether jumps are UR/DG (part of new rules this year).

    I thought Mao's URs were correct, although the 3S was also questionable, the rest was fine. Mirai's jumps all looked good to me...except maybe the 3T at the end of the 2A-3T
    Mirai: 3Lz in combination, 3T in combination 3-2-2, 3Lo were underrotated. Other jumps were borderline.
    Mao: both 3F, 3Lo and 3S looked at least questionable

  5. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okami View Post
    All in all it's difficult to compare the scores from previous season to those from this one, because the base value of some jumps and the way the GoE is factored has changed a lot. Right now CoP encourages doing 3As and having a full set of triples, and this is exactly what Mao is attempting to do, even if a couple of triples weren't perfect yet.
    Thanks for the reply. You made some very insightful points Forgot Mao's program was dinged here and there. Just remembered it as one of the most technically awesome programs ever.

  6. #441
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    Is there any links to Mirai, Rachel, or Alyssa's long programs? I have seen Mikki and Mao' s but I want to see everyone before I give any opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicalwords View Post
    As for the competition, good to see last how-many-was-it skaters go (relatively) clean. However, I found scoring especially in the last group to be very inflated. Thought scores weren't going to go over 130 unless it was like Yu-Na Kim going clean with quality jumps and everything, but it seems like the judges want to see high scores.

    @Krislite
    I don't necessarily see higher PCS scores compared to last year (ex. Ando had 61.60 @ Olympics) it seems to me that judges are giving out GOEs like candies.
    I think it's a little bit inflated because I have been taking notes at the same time when they skated and after the protocol came out, I adjusted for the Tech Panel's call, I thought all the top 3 skaters should be approximately in the 68 +/- 2 for their TES. Let me go into more details to provide some perspective based on each of the top 3's performance.

    Miki Ando: Very solid skate, which gathered positive GOE on every element IMO except the the 2A+2Lo+2Lo combo, with the last jump in the combo appearing to on the borderline of being downgraded - a very common problem in a 3 jump combo using Loop jumps. Aside from the Triple Loop at the beginning of the program, which was accompanied with difficult steps prior to entry, most of her elements were not preceded with difficult transitions or in-between technical features. That's why I felt her positive GOE needed to be restrained as such, limited to +1 in most cases, for good execution on the stand-alone elements.

    Mao Asada: She skated very well, the edge call on the Triple Lutz was a surprise to me because from my angle, she took off from the Outside Edge as I was paying attention to the edge of that jump in particular. Perhaps she switched to Inside Edge just prior to take-off, if so, from my angle it was not possible to see. Her elements #5 & #6, the 2A+3T and 3F+2Lo+2Lo combos obviously had some problem. Sometimes, it's harder to see via an internet connection when the view is not HD but even in this case, it was clear to me the landings of the last jump in each of these two combos were likely under-rotated. So I marked them down for review and it turned out, indeed, the Technical Panel downgraded them with <, therefore, upon such notice, both elements were assessed -1 for GOE in my view. The Triple Salchow was very problematic to the point that no review was necessary, the execution had to be in the negative GOE territory as well. So three Elemeents #5 to 7, were all assessed with negative GOE penalty. One thing Mao did do well was the transition into her FCCoSp at the end where it was done straight out of her Triple Loop, making the entry particularly difficult.

    Mirai Nagasu: I thought that Mirai executed her elements better than the top 2 Japanese skaters in part because she made an effort to include more difficult entries prior to her jumps than either Ando or Asada, namely her Triple Loop and the Double Axel. I didn't see any jumps that could be UR or downgraded in Mirai's skate so it was a very solid performance. Her TES was up there with the top 2 Japanese girls.


    I'd say overall, both Ando and Asada need to include more difficult entries prior to their elements. I am sorry to say this but both of these girls scored in the 6s in my view for their TR category. In that sense, I think their marks are a little inflated. Then again, with such great skates, it really doesn't matter. Also, high score is not a copyright of Yu-Na Kim. If anyone can skate as well as these three did last night, they all deserved high scores. Whether the scores were higher by a few points, it really doesn't matter.

  8. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    And no, I'm not a Mao, Miki hater here to argue to death that their scores were undeserved. I don't give a big hoot about scores as long as the placements are right (which I believe were. Loved the podium). Just found it annoying that I couldn't even question inflation Seriously, I'm a huge Yu-na fan, but believe her 2009 Worlds, 2010 Olympic and 2010 Worlds scores were inflated. So what? All that matters is that she won gold, gold and silver, leaving behind some memorable performances that I've rewatched many times.
    Sorry. I see your point now. I admit I was irked by your last remarks and didn't catch the humor. Mind is a little fuzzy. Stayed up all night to watch the ladies, so please forgive.

  9. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    Probably not. I'm guessing Miki's GOEs here were a fluke. Nothing else can explain the sudden jump from 0.7 (GPF) to 1.3. I've never seen a huge jump like that.

    [...]

    I think I like the changes Mao's made to her LP, esp. the opening. She's two-footing a bit, but I'm guessing her tech will be dealt with and be in spectacular shape come March. I actually think her 3As are gaining greater ice coverage than before, reminiscent of her 07-08 season jumps (awesome quality, esp. at 4CC) Can't wait to see two perfect performances in March.
    As magicalwords pointed out already and I concur, the scores for Miki Ando appeared a little inflated. In my view, it was the lack of more difficult entries that bothered me, otherwise, I would have been happy to agree with the TES given. Definitely both her and Mao were two-footing a little too much in between their elements. Sometimes, you can get away with it, sometimes you can't. At a competition like this, I guess they did. Though, as I mentioned earlier, the transitions they put in should merit no more than mid 6s in the TR category of PCS and also limit the GOE on their TES.

    I thought Asada's Triple Axel is much improved. For the 1st time in a long time I can say it actually merits a positive GOE.

  10. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Sorry. I see your point now. I admit I was irked by your last remarks and didn't catch the humor. Mind is a little fuzzy. Stayed up all night to watch the ladies, so please forgive.
    That's all right Was a little surprised by your tone since you're usually super polite & kind. Cheers to a sweep by Mirai, Mao and Miki! Some very great skating, overall. Hope the good momentum builds into something even better in Tokyo.

  11. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    Wow... These scores are I have no questions about Miki's first place (her scores were a bit too high though), but as for Mao and Mirai... Come on, almost every jump looked UR, how did they get full credit for them and +GOE? They both were overscored. I feel that technical callers at Euros were much stricter in every discipline, wonder how it will be at Worlds.

    Yuna will have no problems winning Worlds this time for sure. If she will not fall 3-4 times, it's hers for taking.
    Oh really, so you think almost every jump from Mao and Mirai were UR. You must have a superman eyesight or something because I honestly can't see how you come up with such outrageous statement. Care to show us how every single of their jump is UR, eh or maybe you just prefer to continue your trend of indiscriminate bashing of every skater in preparation of the grand entree of the little Russian jumping beans in two years? It's getting a little old you know, not just ladies but in men's skating as well. Do you find any skater who isn't Russian to be worthy of your praise at all? BTW, you'll be pleased to know the Technical Panel at 4CC for Ladies were mostly EUROPEAN. Controller = German, Tech. Specialist = Mexican, Assistant Tech. Specialist = Austrian If the 4CC panel were indeed more lenient as you claim, I thought you be comfort to know it's because it consists mostly of Europeans - nothing works likes such gotcha facts against people like you who don't bother with fact checking before posting. Sorry if I make you look like someone who is awfully unprepared for your nasty propaganda against non-Russian skaters. All I can say is: "Oh well, better luck next time!"

  12. #447
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    I am so thrilled for the podium finishers..I thought it was "just" place for all of them...However- I'm so dissappointed in the Canadian women. I read where Myriane had some tendonitis in her knee and I applaud her for her giving it a go and fighting all the way through her LP. But what happened to Amelie Lacoste? It could have been nerves and pressure she put on herself. She's a powerful jumper and I always thought that would be her best attribute, but I guess she just couldn't re-group after the first pop. Cynthia was OK..she still struggles in her long. Her aiming for a second lutz is a good idea in preperation for Worlds but I feel this particular programme doesn't suit her style. Anywho--I hope Worlds will be better for all three and Canada.

  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilshorty View Post
    The problem is, while I feel that the placements are correct, I feel that the judges were too generous in the scoring. Some of Mao's and Mirai's jumps were okay, but did they really all deserve positive GoE? But like I said, it is what it is. The way in which the judges choose to score is not going to change and neither is my opinion.
    That was not the question. You said you thought many of those jumps should have been called UR but you completely evaded the question when asked which jumps you thought weren't called. I know exactly which jumps I felt was iffy and if you ask me, I can point you to precisely the question marks I noted. Since you can't, I can't help but conclude your original statement was baseless so I hope you retrack it, otherwise, it just consistutes unfair bashing of the skaters, which is just not fair or right.

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK's Winter View Post
    Is there any links to Mirai, Rachel, or Alyssa's long programs? I have seen Mikki and Mao' s but I want to see everyone before I give any opinions.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hRxiDmuV0U Mirai

  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    Mirai: 3Lz in combination, 3T in combination 3-2-2, 3Lo were underrotated. Other jumps were borderline.
    Mao: both 3F, 3Lo and 3S looked at least questionable
    As for Mirai, I didn't see any underrotations. I watched it again on youtube. They look very clean to me and the judges agreed with me.

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