Ladies - Long Program

[hikki]

Is it possible for a spin to have personality? It seems there is more personality to Mirai's spins. (I know I may be jumping into hot water with this one.)

Also, the fact that she ranked highest of the American ladies here at 4CC is both something of a vindication as well as a reason for regret. Why couldn't you do this at Nats??? The Tokyo audience at Worlds would have loved to have seen this, I'm sure.

I absolutely agree with you on Mirai's spins! The audience clearly loved her spins full of personality that used the accents of the music so well.

[Mrs. P]

Mao has more to be optimistic about than Miki, Miki was flawless and looking at the protocol her GOE is probably the highest she's gonna get (I really don't see any place she could receive higher GOE's) so a 134-135 is probably the highest marks she's gonna get for a flawless free skate

Mao had 132+, but with some flaws (easily fixable flaws however) so I can see her improving by 4-5 pts if she skates cleanly.

Miki has one other option to up her point level the 3Z-3L. While she has made strides in her non-jump elements and putting forth consistent programs. We all know that she can do this combo. Her 3Z-2L is so big already, that she could probably add another rotation, and she does it in practice.

ETA: This does wreck havoc on her current format though. By having the 3Z-3L, she would have a repeated jump with the loop. So she would have to do something else instead of the solo 3T (since she does a 2A+3T later in the program.) Does anyone know the status of her flip? I really haven't quite figured out why she took that jump out this year.
I'm probably wasting my breath, but I'd really like her to do this...

[jenaj]

I'm never gonna be a fan of Rachel winning over better skaters like the Japanese girls, Mirai, Carolina, Alissa etc but a fluke can happen where they all mess up somewhere in the competition and steady Rachael could win. We've see it happen with Sarah. I've learn to never say never unfortunately.

I don't know if Rachael can reac the top of the podium at Worlds. I do know--or at least it's my opinion--that she can't do it with her current long program. It's too busy. Rachael needs to stop trying ot act out a part that goes over most of the audience's, and the judges', heads. She should pick a beautiful piece of music that is cut well and just skate. She has developed a nice Ina Bauer and spread eagle that she can capitalize on. She is a consistent jumper and if she can land her jumps cleanly and avoid under-rotations, it will carry her pretty far, maybe not to a gold medal but perhaps to the podium (especially if Yu Na retires).

[wonderlen3000]

mao's transitions in the program are awesome. and even with the 2 underrotations she got huge scores for the elements. so add the 3-3 next time!!!

such a shame mirai is not going to worlds

Well, under COP doing 3+3 will not going to give her any more points advantage, unless she is going for 8 triples jump. Her current jumps layout is really good, maximize the point. She can add the 3T behind 3F+3T like in 08 seson, but i think she should wait until her Flip is rock solid. As long as she nail the 3A and 2A+3T wo <, n the rest of the jumps she should score huge TES, more than either Miki or Yuna. She def has at least one < jump wiggle room over Miki so.

Mao made 4 mistakes in this over all competition; 2 two footed jumps in sP and two < in Lp.

[MK's Winter]

So you'd rather base it on one competition, 4CC's, just because you prefer Mirai?

Because Mirai's GPF season was behind Flatt & Czisny, as well as her US Nationals experience. The only place she came out ahead of either of them this year was here at 4CC's.

C'mon now.

I don't think that is what's being said. I also think that Nationals shouldn't be the only deciding factor. Other countries look at their own Nationals and Europeans for team selections. That's all.

[dorispulaski]

Yes, some other countries do. And sometimes, as in France, they get sued for not having well defined rules.

And they cut the heart out of some skaters who believe there is no way they can win in that country, no matter how they skate, and they retire far too early, or figure out how to skate for...say Italy (Contesti, formerly French) or as here in the USA back in the 1970's for Netherlands (World Champ DeLeeuw, formerly American). So the US does not do that any more. As MM says, the goal of the USFS is not to win medals, particularly. It is an organization for all the skaters, including the little kids learning basic skills, the Adult Skaters, the synchro teams, etc.

However, YMMV.

[Olympia]

Yes, some other countries do. And sometimes, as in France, they get sued for not having well defined rules.

And they cut the heart out of some skaters who believe there is no way they can win in that country, no matter how they skate, and they retire far too early, or figure out how to skate for...say Italy (Contesti, formerly French) or as here in the USA back in the 1970's for Netherlands (World Champ DeLeeuw, formerly American). So the US does not do that any more. As MM says, the goal of the USFS is not to win medals, particularly. It is an organization for all the skaters, including the little kids learning basic skills, the Adult Skaters, the synchro teams, etc.

However, YMMV.

I never thought about that view of the USFSA, Doris; I like it. Taking the top three (or, alas top two this year) is both clear and fair, certainly. Though at this moment it does give a bit of a twinge as we watch the talented Mirai and realize she'll be staying home for the rest of the season.

I don't know the ins and outs of skating rules back in the days of Dianne de Leeuw. Was she shafted by having someone else put on a worlds team ahead of her? I sort of assumed she skated for the Netherlands because the U.S. ladies' field was so crowded in those days, and in the Netherlands a skater of her caliber was virtually assured a Worlds berth--the way Lily Lee skated for South Korea. Golly, I haven't thought about De Leeuw for years. Her Olympics (and John Curry's) was the first one I watched, and I remember liking her style.

[dorispulaski]

Certainly the field was crowded, but if Dianne were good enough to be a World Champion, she should have not felt the need to flee, if she believed she had a chance in the US. Heck, at one point Yamaguchi was trying to skate for Japan (which had some excellent skaters itself). It didn't work out, but why did she feel the need to even look? I don't know, but I haven't seen that urge to flee the US from a really talented skater in a long time. It could just be chance...or not.

In the 1970s and 1980s there were significant "winners win & losers lose" type rumors, but no internet to verify whether they were true or not. There was a belief that if Carlo Fassi were not coaching you that you were doomed, for example, at one point. Rumors...but as a fan, you had no idea if the rumors were garbage or not.

[Mathman]

One thing for sure, Four Continents has come a long way. Just a few years ago we could hardly find a skater who was willing to go. Now -- thanks largely to Japan suddenly taking it seriously -- it is the biggest game in town.

[zizi31]

I don't think you should criticize Mao and Miki. You don't know what they eat. And I don't find their appearance "sad" - to me Mao looks perfect, and Mirai is above my ideal weight. And the three of them were "twins" once upon a time because Mirai was thinner then. She has gained weight this season.

[hikki]

One thing for sure, Four Continents has come a long way. Just a few years ago we could hardly find a skater who was willing to go. Now -- thanks largely to Japan suddenly taking it seriously -- it is the biggest game in town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Co...onships#Ladies
The 1st Four Continents medalists were: Tatiana Malinina, Amber Corwin and Angela Nikodinov. Not to take away anything from these medalists in 1999 but FC indeed has come a long way with both Japan and USA sending their A team!

Miki has one other option to up her point level the 3Z-3L. While she has made strides in her non-jump elements and putting forth consistent programs. We all know that she can do this combo. Her 3Z-2L is so big already, that she could probably add another rotation, and she does it in practice.

ETA: This does wreck havoc on her current format though. By having the 3Z-3L, she would have a repeated jump with the loop. So she would have to do something else instead of the solo 3T (since she does a 2A+3T later in the program.) Does anyone know the status of her flip? I really haven't quite figured out why she took that jump out this year.
I'm probably wasting my breath, but I'd really like her to do this...

Miki does a lot of jump combinations in practices- The Japanese discussion boards refer to this as "pull a Morozov" i.e. a skater shows off all sorts of tricks in practices only to 'play smart' in the competition, like Shizuka with 3s/3t/3l in Torino.

At 4CC, Miki was seen landing 3s/3l (You can see Mao's 3f/3l < attempts earlier in the clip too):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6npdMC9o8E#t=1m20s

I'd love to see her do a -3lp combo but you're right, she'd have to fill a jumping pass with an extra triple, the only one left being the flip.
She seems to have given up on the flip after a fall in the short in a GP event (forgot which). After working on her lips, sadly the consistency went down.

[Blades of Passion]

One thing for sure, Four Continents has come a long way. Just a few years ago we could hardly find a skater who was willing to go. Now -- thanks largely to Japan suddenly taking it seriously -- it is the biggest game in town.

I don't think it's that far yet. Just last year the event was skipped by almost all of the top skaters, so as not to interpret their preparations for the Olympics. The same can not be said of Europeans.

[R.D.]

No matter how well Rachel skates she isn't going to ever be a World champion. She will be lucky to be in the top 6 unless lots of other skaters falter.

Hmm.....I wouldn't say that. you NEVER, NEVER, EVER know.

Extremely unlikely? Yes.

Do I have a better chance of winning a thousand bucks? Perhaps.

Is it impossible? no

[Blades of Passion]

Miki has one other option to up her point level, the 3Z-3L.

Miki has many options aside from just that.

She could put a Triple Flip in the program.
She could put a Quad Salchow in the program.
She could put a Quad Salchow and Triple Flip in the program.
She could put either of those jumps into the program, along with another 2Axel-3Toe combination.
She could put BOTH of those jumps into the program, along with another 2Axel-3Toe combination.

Instead, the judges give her undeserved +GOE and PCS for her programs, so she sticks with her safe jump layout.

[FlattFan]

I notice Miki had some problems connecting steps preceding her flip. That might gave her some problem with timing. She was very tentative going into them the few times she tried this season. In the LP, she could just do a flip without any transition. I think she should be able to land it.