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Thread: Ladies - Long Program

  1. #466
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    As much as I like Mirai, I think that Alissa and Rachael both deserve to go to Worlds. Rachael and Alissa both had better seasons overall, not to mention both beat Mirai at Nationals. I, too, believe Mirai can be the strongest US lady and one of the top in the World, that said, she is her own worst enemy.

  2. #467
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    Wow Mao must have reworked that program. I really love it and that spiral at the end...awesome. Now that's how you do a spiral (straight leg). Mao, Mirai and Alissa are the only spirals I adore now. Haven't had to many good ones since Michelle and Sasha.

    Love the long sleeves Miki and Mao are wearing. I loved when Michelle wore long sleeves. I don't know why she didn't do it more.

    Love this comp. If only Alissa came in 4th instead.
    Last edited by lavender; 02-20-2011 at 03:40 PM.

  3. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    So let's say they both skate the same, and that Murakami and YuNa beat both of them. That's Rachael in 5th and Alissa in 6th. And that's 3 spots with some room for error. If Rachael skates as well as she did here, she could beat Murakami, whose PBs for the SP, the LP, and total (all achieved at the GPF) are all lower than Rachael's score at 4CC's. Fourth is definitely possible.
    .
    I think right now, none of the European ladies are a threat to podium or even to beat out the US ladies. Kostner might, if she skates clean and bring back her Flip and Lutz, the rest is just - so inconsistent; good SP and flater on LP.

    Murakami score 125+ at recent events, not sure it is count as her personal best under ISU.

    Overall, its a great competition and shows that Yuna will not going to have a walk in the park to the world title.

  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    Wow Mao must have reworked that program. I really love it and that spiral at the end...awesome. Now that's how you do a spiral (straight leg). Mao, Mirai and Alissa are the only spirals I adore now. Haven't had to many good ones since Michelle and Sasha.

    Love the long sleeves Miki and Mao are wearing. I loved when Michelle wore long sleeves. I don't know why she didn't do it more.

    Love this comp. If only Alissa came in 4th instead.
    I totally love Mao program, and so proud of her keeping her head up even w her abyssmal GP series. ITA, i love all three spiral. Miki and Mao looks really great in long sleeves and both their custome really nice.

  5. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntBREAD View Post
    Thank you I have been looking everywhere for her performance!

  6. #471
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    After finally watching Mirai, I am happy with the results. Mirai really brought it, its a shame about her short she really could have challenged for the title. Miki was wonderful, she has a very lyrical quality about her skating. What a turnaround by Mao! Her music suits her well, she peaks at the right time every season!

    I really wish the usfsa would use 4 Continents as a deciding factor for the world team as well as Nationals. I really feel Mirai should go to worlds. She could challenge for a medal easy. She was quoted saying she was going to work on herself mentally. Once the nerves are behind her I think she will become pretty dominate.

  7. #472
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Well, but then you would have to leave behind Rachael, who brought it at both US Nats & at 4CC's, and qual'd for the GPF. The US Champion always goes, so leaving Alissa home would not be an option.

    Even if the US used this 4CC's as a selector, I doubt they'd have changed the world team, based on it. Another way to look at it:
    If Mirai weren't here, Rachael would be 3rd. Mirai didn't beat Miki or Mao and is unlikely to beat Yu Na. So even if she were to skate as she did here, her scores do not make her a lock for a medal at Worlds. So the risk of her losing focus when the pressure is on is not outweighed on the upside.

    The thing to really wish for for Mirai:

    Better focus next year.
    Get rid of her lip.

    Then she will be US Champion again, and on the world team again.

  8. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan View Post
    I'm hopeful that not having a strong skate this weekend will help Alissa for Worlds-she won't have as much pressure as she would have she been on the podium and she had another chance to go out there and skate. It seems like the more mileage Alissa gets under her belt, the more confidence she has. She had to come down off that "high" of her Nationals win and now she can build back up for Worlds.
    It's best that she didn't peak here, so I'm not too worried. But the encouraging thing is this: in BOTH programs she made mistakes early. But she didn't give up and kept fighting throughout the program, something she never really used to do. She's actually starting to gain some consistency (!)

    Personally, as much as I like Alissa, I think Mirai is our best current US Lady. Rachel is a steady eddie and pretty reliable as a solid #2. Watch her now go, have two HUGE skates of her life and be on the podium at Worlds! I just think Mirai will always come out ahead when clean, regardless of what Rachel does. But including a 2ax/3lp and 3fl/3t is quite ambitious!
    I agree that Nagasu is our best- however, she has struggled mightily with consistency and nerves. Many of us thought that after Olys, 3 spots in 2011 = no problem. But then Nagasu went and blew it in the FS at Worlds AFTER LEADING (yes, I know, Flatt didn't necessarily help either). Nagasu really is a wildcard and based on results THIS SEASON I think we are sending the right team in Rachel and Alyssa.

    Rachel says she wants to go for the 3-3 in both programs, and while I admire her determination, I wonder if she honestly NEEDS it. Perhaps she wants to be in fighting position for Bronze, but I think she can be top 5 even without it. Even with it, she's going to need help from Kim, Asada and Ando to get on the podium. Czisny is capable of a top 6 finish, maybe even a podium finish if she knocks it out of the park.

    It's just up to the two of them to deliver, though. NOTHING is a given. I learned that a while ago...

  9. #474
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Absolutely, nothing is a given. We could have the ladies' equivalent at Worlds of the World pairs event we had when Jessica Dube's face got slashed by Bryce's skate and almost every team after them bombed, being grossed out and upset.

  10. #475
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    Well, but then you would have to leave behind Rachael, who brought it at both US Nats & at 4CC's, and qual'd for the GPF. The US Champion always goes, so leaving Alissa home would not be an option.
    Czisny deserves to go THIS TIME, based on her results from this season. No way one could justify kicking her off- and this is coming from the same guy who argued AGAINST putting her on the team if she didn't fix her consistency issues.

    You could argue against Flatt based on her disaster at GPF, and her plunging international scores. However, 4CC showed that at her best, she IS relevant and she WILL get respectable (albeit not sky-high) scores for a good performance. And you could argue against Nagasu based on her up-and-down performances on the GP, and her so-so effort at Nationals. Nagasu had nothing to lose here after messing up in the SP, and having no pressure (and no Frank) to deal with...so she could afford to go all out in the FS. I would worry that the scared Mirai would return if she went to worlds and found herself in the top 2 or 3 after the SP again.

    I think we are actually sending the right team this time around. Maximize our chances of 3 spots, based on recent results...and the team of Czisny/Flatt accomplishes that IMO.

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    3 spots looks more than achievable, even if Rachael & Alissa skate no better than they did at 4CC's. If Alissa skates as she did at Nationals and the GPF, a bronze might be possible!

    Rachael's total score of 180.31 would have won Europeans very handily. Sarah Meier will not be at Worlds, but her total score was only 170.60. Kostner was second and her score was 168.54 total. Rachael's score here is within half a point of Alissa's PB at GPF (180.75). Alissa's score here was 168.81 and would have beaten Kostner.

    So let's say they both skate the same, and that Murakami and YuNa beat both of them. That's Rachael in 5th and Alissa in 6th. And that's 3 spots with some room for error. If Rachael skates as well as she did here, she could beat Murakami, whose PBs for the SP, the LP, and total (all achieved at the GPF) are all lower than Rachael's score at 4CC's. Fourth is definitely possible.

    In the LP recap, Rachael is quoted as saying:



    That's very ambitious of her.

    Her SP was particularly well received at 4CC's, and I was very pleased to see the non US crowd gave her a standing ovation, so I think Rachael placing between 4th and 8th is very possible for her this year. In fact with luck, a bronze is not totally impossible, if either Yu Na, Mao or Miki falter (and I would not have said that at the beginning of the year). And the same is true for Alissa.
    As far as I'm concerned the biggest competition for Rachael and Alissa will be the power-play Japanese team of Miki/Mao/Kanako and Yuna, of course.

    I think either of them can sneak on the podium or just outside it if any of those three falter. Alissa has beat Kanako (at GPF) and Miki (also a GPF, mainly because of her bad SP there). Rachael has beat Mao at nHK, but that was early in the season and Mao was clearly not in her best element there.

    As for the European women: Is that judges will reward Kostner with a solid score even with less difficult tech content. However we saw at Skate America that judges will dock her down if she is not clean with the program. She does have a 3T-3T which looks pretty nice.

    Kiira Korpi also could sneak in there. She also has a nice 3T-3T and she was first alternate for the GPF (and that she won TEB). And her FS is absolutely beautiful and has scored major PCS points.

    Ksenia and Leonova have had flashes of brilliance but I think at this point that Flatt and Alissa could overtake them easily.

    The Canadians have not impressed me that much, especially this competition. Out of the three I think Cynthia Phaneuf can play spoiler but she ha to be absolutely clean if she wants to do that. (ala 2010 worlds).

    So with that in mind, either Rachael or Alissa of them could sneak for 3rd or 4th (only if one of the top four faulter) and can easily be in 5th and 6th and get those spots back.

    I think Alissa had an off-day today and she did not completely bomb at the competition. In the past it would have been absolute meltdown. I'm actually impressed that she went for it and did not give up. Also, I think the fact that 4CC was less than a month after Nationals also came into play. (Same with the Canadians).

  12. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK's Winter View Post
    After finally watching Mirai, I am happy with the results. Mirai really brought it, its a shame about her short she really could have challenged for the title. Miki was wonderful, she has a very lyrical quality about her skating. What a turnaround by Mao! Her music suits her well, she peaks at the right time every season!

    I really wish the usfsa would use 4 Continents as a deciding factor for the world team as well as Nationals. I really feel Mirai should go to worlds. She could challenge for a medal easy. She was quoted saying she was going to work on herself mentally. Once the nerves are behind her I think she will become pretty dominate.
    I totally agree re:USFSA.

    I think the problem here is that the "Nationals winner takes all" rule (tacit or not) was conceived when the US was THE figure skating nation and when there was no question that the US would have 3 spots on the World team. Given that: (a) we only have 2 spots; and (b) the US hegemony over figure skating is coming to its end at least for the time being, I think the US should seriously reconsider, maybe including an escape clause in their regulations whereby the "US Champion takes all" rule is suspended when we don't have 2 spots on the World team.

    All that said, though, I don't think this solves the current problem we face, given that it's a tough choice between the 3 girls. The best finisher in the 1st half of the season (GPF and National Champion Alissa Czisny) was the lowest finisher in the event immediately preceding World's (i.e. 4CC), the best finisher at 4CC under-performed in both the GP series and Nationals, and there's a consistent one in the middle.

    Gut feeling wise, I think the GPF champion + the 4CC bronze medalist would make a formidable team, but at the end of the day, if USFSA is acting in its own interest (which it should), I think the best choice is to hedge its risk by including the consistent one.

  13. #478
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    Don't have a problem with Nagasu not going to worlds. She WOULD have been going, actually, if not for last year.

  14. #479
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    Yes, R.D., I do think that how you did at last Worlds is an issue (for both Mirai & Rachael). But I think that USFS is sending the right team for this year.

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentineSteps View Post
    I totally agree re:USFSA.

    I think the problem here is that the "Nationals winner takes all" rule (tacit or not) was conceived when the US was THE figure skating nation and when there was no question that the US would have 3 spots on the World team. Given that: (a) we only have 2 spots; and (b) the US hegemony over figure skating is coming to its end at least for the time being, I think the US should seriously reconsider, maybe including an escape clause in their regulations whereby the "US Champion takes all" rule is suspended when we don't have 2 spots on the World team.

    All that said, though, I don't think this solves the current problem we face, given that it's a tough choice between the 3 girls. The best finisher in the 1st half of the season (GPF and National Champion Alissa Czisny) was the lowest finisher in the event immediately preceding World's (i.e. 4CC), the best finisher at 4CC under-performed in both the GP series and Nationals, and there's a consistent one in the middle.

    Gut feeling wise, I think the GPF champion + the 4CC bronze medalist would make a formidable team, but at the end of the day, if USFSA is acting in its own interest (which it should), I think the best choice is to hedge its risk by including the consistent one.
    I think I agree with MM's statement of thinking what the goal of the USFSA is. I'm not trying to insult everyone's intelligence, but just go with me for a second and let me point out the mission statement of the organization and I bolded some of the points I thought was worth noting. :

    : As the national governing body, the mission of the United States Figure Skating Association is to provide programs to encourage participation and achievement in the sport of figure skating on ice, and particularly:

    A. To serve as the national governing body in the sport of figure skating on ice as recognized by the United States Olympic Committee (USOC), and to serve as the United States member of the International Skating Union (ISU);

    B. To take all steps necessary to regulate and govern figure skating on ice throughout the United States, including the raising of funds to support activities of U.S. Figure Skating by dues, the sale of publications, the conduct of competitions, carnival assessments, sanction fees and any other lawful means, provided that none of the income of U.S. Figure Skating inures to the private profit of any of its members;

    C. To define and maintain uniform standards of skating proficiency;

    D. To prescribe rules for the holding of tests, competitions, exhibitions, carnivals and all other figure skating activities, and the eligibility therefore, and to qualify and appoint judges, referees and other officials for all tests, competitions and other figure skating events;

    E. To encourage and give guidance and assistance in the organization of local ice skating clubs, and the attaining of full participation in figure skating by individuals, groups, clubs, schools, colleges and universities throughout the United States;

    F. To organize and sponsor competitions and exhibitions for the purpose of stimulating interest in figure skating on the part of all persons, and to assist financially or otherwise, in accordance with the rules of U.S. Figure Skating, the participants traveling to and from and attending such competitions and exhibitions, who would otherwise be unable to participate therein;

    G. To encourage those persons who have demonstrated an ongoing interest in figure skating to continue their participation in figure skating, and where possible, to obtain a college or university education;

    H. To provide an equal opportunity to eligible athletes, coaches, trainers, managers, administrators and officials to participate in eligible athlete competition without discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, age, gender or national origin, and with fair notice and an opportunity for a hearing to any eligible athlete, coach, trainer, manager, administrator or official before declaring such individual ineligible to participate;

    I. To select members of the Board of Directors and athlete representatives without discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, gender or national origin;

    J. To submit to binding arbitration conducted in accordance with the commercial arbitration rules of the American Arbitration Association in any controversy involving its recognition as a national governing body, as provided for in Section 205 and successor sections of the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act (36 USC 220501 et. seq.), or involving the opportunity of any athlete, coach, trainer, manager, administrator or official to participate in athletic competition, as provided for in the bylaws of the USOC;

    K. To support, by contributions from U.S. Figure Skating and its Memorial Fund, other charitable and educational organizations which are themselves exempt from taxation under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as from time to time amended; and

    L. To ensure that the foregoing objects are within the meaning of Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as from time to time amended, and that the activities of U.S. Figure Skating, both direct and indirect, are exclusively in furtherance of these objects.
    As you can see here, there's nothing in there that states that the goal of the federation is to get World medals. Yes, they're nice. Yes it rises the reputation of the national program, but the fact is that the federation is more than a selection committee post nationals. We speak about the federation like that's all they do. That's not the case.

    And if the goal is maintaining "uniform standards" of proficiency, then using U.S. Nationals as the main qualifier for Worlds section fits this. Until they establish some sort of other Worlds qualifier standard, i.e. highest placing GPF American, there are too many variables in trying to use the "past results" thing as a more major part of the decision making process.

    Also consider this:

    U.S. Figure Skating is one of the strongest and fastest growing governing bodies within the Olympic movement with more than 176,000 members. It is comprised of member clubs, collegiate clubs, school-affiliated clubs and individual members. The charter member clubs numbered seven in 1921 when the association was formed and first became a member of the ISU.
    Quite frankly, yes it would be nice for us to have world medals, but the fact is those world medalists only make up a smidgen (granted a well-known smidgen) of the people who participate in U.S. figure skating.

    So I think this clearly supports MM's assertions, which I agree with.

    Now does this mean I think the federation can do no wrong? Far from it. They definitely can play politics and there are issues.

    So for those who want to change the system of World team selection, perhaps you need to join USFSA and lobby for some changes...
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 02-20-2011 at 05:02 PM.

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