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Thread: Ladies - Long Program

  1. #481
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    Refraining from quoting your original post, but thank you, Mrs. P for that well thought-out response.

    I think that, in the past, USFSA has made some mistakes w.r.t. team selection. That said, this year is just one of those years where they were faced with very talented candidates and unfortunate circumstances, and they chose what they thought to be the best decision (which I agree with, after having a moment to think over the entire season and what ought to be USFSA's mission instead of reacting purely based on my excitement over Mirai's performance). Whether one agrees with that or not, I don't think anybody can make a definitive case against any subset of 2 out of the 3 top US ladies' skaters right now.

    Unfortunate that Mirai can't make World's? Very.
    The wrong decision not to send her? A much harder point to prove.

  2. #482
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentineSteps View Post
    Refraining from quoting your original post, but thank you, Mrs. P for that well thought-out response.

    I think that, in the past, USFSA has made some mistakes w.r.t. team selection. That said, this year is just one of those years where they were faced with very talented candidates and unfortunate circumstances, and they chose what they thought to be the best decision (which I agree with, after having a moment to think over the entire season and what ought to be USFSA's mission instead of reacting purely based on my excitement over Mirai's performance). Whether one agrees with that or not, I don't think anybody can make a definitive case against any subset of 2 out of the 3 top US ladies' skaters right now.

    Unfortunate that Mirai can't make World's? Very.
    The wrong decision not to send her? A much harder point to prove.
    I agree with your statement that there really isn't a definitive case for any of the various combination of 2 makes the best Worlds team.

    That said, I definitely think the U.S. Nationals team selection does not always yield the best results, but I don't know it's a strong enough case to completely overhaul the system.

    I do see the possibility of considering a system compared to Japan in 2010 -- send the highest GPF finisher then choose the other two based on Nationals.

    But even that in the Women that would still result in a team of Alissa and Rachael (and in ice dance a team of D/W/Shibutanis and C/Z.

    It's a bigger problem in the men because none of the U.S. men made the GPF, same with the pairs.

    BUt again, until there is a clear defined way to use past-results (and not a vague" past results will be considered somewhat"), I can see why most opt to use the Nationals route.

  3. #483
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I would like to add the following to Mrs. P's quotes from the USFSA by-laws. This is the mission statement of the International Committee, which has responsibility for making team selections.

    The mission of the International Committee is: to select the U.S. Figure Skating Team that wins the maximum number of international medals and berths possible by strategically providing experience to qualified members of the U.S. Figure Skating Team, and by identifying and supporting the best qualified future prospects. The International Committee is also responsible for the approval of criteria used to select athletes to the team envelopes.
    The way I read this, yes, we want to send strong teams to ISU championships..

    Now...how do we go about doing this? Not by manipulating the selection criteria, but by

    (a) providing skaters with opportunities to gain experience in international competition, and

    (b) developing the talents of young up-and-comers.

    I think this is indeed the focus of the selection committee. It does not seem to be part of their mission to weigh the relative strengths of one skater winning the Grand Prix Final versus another who medals at Four Continents.

    Much less is there any mention of considering whether one skater has more dependable jumps versus another who might hit a home run but is subject to nervousness. This sort of thing is just not in the committee's mandate.

  4. #484
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    What happened to Mirai and Mao?
    Any links?

  5. #485
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    No matter how well Rachel skates she isn't going to ever be a World champion. She will be lucky to be in the top 6 unless lots of other skaters falter.

  6. #486
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^But what does that have to do with anything?

  7. #487
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    I'm never gonna be a fan of Rachel winning over better skaters like the Japanese girls, Mirai, Carolina, Alissa etc but a fluke can happen where they all mess up somewhere in the competition and steady Rachael could win. We've see it happen with Sarah. I've learn to never say never unfortunately.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    What happened to Mirai and Mao?
    Both did great, 3rd and 2nd. Mirai's performancewas one of her best ever. Mao got 190-something points.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    What happened to Mirai and Mao?
    Any links?
    Mao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPce3..._order&list=UL
    Mirai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBmzq9aGBR0 (Scott, )

  10. #490
    Mashimaro on Ice
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    I also feel that it may be better for the US to choose the Worlds team based on other factors instead of just nationals, since it's just one competition from the entire season. It's truly unfortunate to leave Mirai behind since out of all of the ladies, she has the potential to score the highest and possibly medal at Worlds. But alas, the ladies situation is at least better then the men with both Abbot and Rippon not going to Worlds.

  11. #491
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    So you'd rather base it on one competition, 4CC's, just because you prefer Mirai?

    Because Mirai's GPF season was behind Flatt & Czisny, as well as her US Nationals experience. The only place she came out ahead of either of them this year was here at 4CC's.

    C'mon now.

  12. #492
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I would like to add the following to Mrs. P's quotes from the USFSA by-laws. This is the mission statement of the International Committee, which has responsibility for making team selections.



    The way I read this, yes, we want to send strong teams to ISU championships..

    Now...how do we go about doing this? Not by manipulating the selection criteria, but by

    (a) providing skaters with opportunities to gain experience in international competition, and

    (b) developing the talents of young up-and-comers.

    I think this is indeed the focus of the selection committee. It does not seem to be part of their mission to weigh the relative strengths of one skater winning the Grand Prix Final versus another who medals at Four Continents.

    Much less is there any mention of considering whether one skater has more dependable jumps versus another who might hit a home run but is subject to nervousness. This sort of thing is just not in the committee's mandate.
    Not to mention the fact that doing that would add a lot of additional time in the decision making process. Look at how much time us posters spend debating this topic. Unlike us GS posters, the selection committee only have a finite amount of time to make these decisions. And lets face it within the selection committee there would be great disagreements. I'm sure there are people on the committee who probably would have preferred Mirai to be at Worlds. But unless that sect of folks constructed had a compelling case, you would have folks who disagree breaking the rules.

  13. #493
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    So you'd rather base it on one competition, 4CC's, just because you prefer Mirai?

    Because Mirai's GPF season was behind Flatt & Czisny, as well as her US Nationals experience. The only place she came out ahead of either of them this year was here at 4CC's.

    C'mon now.
    while I agree with your point DP, I have to correct you on that bolded statement. Mirai did beat Alissa at TEB this year. And Rachael and Mirai only competed against each other at Nationals since they had different events (Rach was at NHK+ Skate America Mirai at COC and TEB)

    That said, I feel that Mirai does compete best in a non-pressure situation and that is a bit disconcerting. Even though she finished higher than Rachael at the Olympics, all the pressure was still on Rachael because she was the U.S. Champion. The one time she did perform well after placing in first, ironically, was at last year's nationals.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 02-20-2011 at 07:18 PM.

  14. #494
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^ Not because I love Mirai, Mirai aside one valid explanation to make the world team from 4cc results like euro countries do many times from Euros, is that the competition is international against top world skaters and that the indication about the condition of the skater is closer to Worlds dates than nationals for USa and even worse for Euros when Nationals take place Novembre/ Decembre. I dont say it should happen, but I wouldnt be surprised that someone would do it that way.
    Thanx for links, i ll watch now!

    Btw someone has done a tricky thing in YT, if you search for Mao Asada 4CC 2011 FS you see the programs of Yuna instead.
    Last edited by seniorita; 02-20-2011 at 07:22 PM.

  15. #495
    mylastduchess
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    Mao has more to be optimistic about than Miki, Miki was flawless and looking at the protocol her GOE is probably the highest she's gonna get (I really don't see any place she could receive higher GOE's) so a 134-135 is probably the highest marks she's gonna get for a flawless free skate

    Mao had 132+, but with some flaws (easily fixable flaws however) so I can see her improving by 4-5 pts if she skates cleanly.

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