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Thread: Ladies - Long Program

  1. #511
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    OK, I'm ready to be ripped to shreds, so I'm going to comment on the world team debate.

    How about something like this?

    1.If there is one spot available for worlds, then the spot for the United States will go to the winner of Nationals.

    2.If there are two spots available for worlds, then the first spot will go to the winner of Nationals and the second spot will go the American that did the best* in the Grand Prix. If the winner of Nationals and the person that did the best in the Grand Prix are the same, then the second spot will go to the silver medalist at Nationals.

    3. If there are three spots available for worlds, then the first spot will go to the winner of Nationals, the second spot will go to the American that did the best in the Grand Prix, and the third spot will go to the silver medalist at the US Nationals. If the winner of Nationals and the person that did the best in the Grand Prix are the same, then the second spot will go to the silver medalist at Nationals, and the third spot will go to the bronze medalist at Nationals.

    [*Best will be defined as the American that placed the highest in the Grand Prix Final or, if no American qualified for the Grand Prix final, the person that was ranked the highest according to the ISU and its rules on points, tiebreakers, etc., in qualifying events.]


    This would keep the idea that the the winner of Nationals should always go to Worlds, but would also provide a little bit of protection for the US in the uncommon situation where the US has two or three spots, yet the person with the highest Grand Prix finish has an uncharacteristically bad time at Nationals and doesn't end up in the top two or three.

    If we applied the above to this year, the teams would be:

    Men: Bradley, Abbott, and Dornbush
    Ladies: Czisny and Flatt
    Pairs: Yankowskas/Coughlin, Evora/Ladwig
    Ice dancing: Davis/White, Shibutanis, Chock/Zuerlein

    Notice there is no difference except for the men's team.

    [And just to be clear... Since it has been tradition to go 1,2,3 for worlds, I strongly support Miner being on the world team and think he earned his spot. This is about the future, not changing common understanding in the middle of the game, which I think is incredibly unfair and sends a bad message to the skaters.]

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrScroogeMcDuck View Post
    OK, I'm ready to be ripped to shreds, so I'm going to comment on the world team debate.

    How about something like this?

    1.If there is one spot available for worlds, then the spot for the United States will go to the winner of Nationals.

    2.If there are two spots available for worlds, then the first spot will go to the winner of Nationals and the second spot will go the American that did the best* in the Grand Prix. If the winner of Nationals and the person that did the best in the Grand Prix are the same, then the second spot will go to the silver medalist at Nationals.

    3. If there are three spots available for worlds, then the first spot will go to the winner of Nationals, the second spot will go to the American that did the best in the Grand Prix, and the third spot will go to the silver medalist at the US Nationals. If the winner of Nationals and the person that did the best in the Grand Prix are the same, then the second spot will go to the silver medalist at Nationals, and the third spot will go to the bronze medalist at Nationals.

    [*Best will be defined as the American that placed the highest in the Grand Prix Final or, if no American qualified for the Grand Prix final, the person that was ranked the highest according to the ISU and its rules on points, tiebreakers, etc., in qualifying events.]


    This would keep the idea that the the winner of Nationals should always go to Worlds, but would also provide a little bit of protection for the US in the uncommon situation where the US has two or three spots, yet the person with the highest Grand Prix finish has an uncharacteristically bad time at Nationals and doesn't end up in the top two or three.

    If we applied the above to this year, the teams would be:

    Men: Bradley, Abbott, and Dornbush
    Ladies: Czisny and Flatt
    Pairs: Yankowskas/Coughlin, Evora/Ladwig
    Ice dancing: Davis/White, Shibutanis, Chock/Zuerlein

    Notice there is no difference except for the men's team.

    [And just to be clear... Since it has been tradition to go 1,2,3 for worlds, I strongly support Miner being on the world team and think he earned his spot. This is about the future, not changing common understanding in the middle of the game, which I think is incredibly unfair and sends a bad message to the skaters.]
    Great suggestion, I'm actually going to start a new thread on this on The Edge so we can get back to the thread topic on hand.

  3. #513
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    Upon review, I have found a slight flaw. I'll think about it some more and see if if it can't be tweaked to become more reasonable. Oh, and yes, a new thread would be great.

  4. #514
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    As much as i want Mirai to go to Worlds after her 4CC performance she just didn't get it done at Nationals. She didn't even skate like she wanted to win and not only didn't she win she blew a chance to go to Tokyo. Plus we all know when she gets a lead or is near the top she freezes. Who's to say she wouldn't do what she did last year at Worlds? She needs to prove to everyone including herself that she can be consistent.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post


    Mao Asada: She skated very well, the edge call on the Triple Lutz was a surprise to me because from my angle, she took off from the Outside Edge as I was paying attention to the edge of that jump in particular. Perhaps she switched to Inside Edge just prior to take-off, .

    .
    She did switch her edge like 1 second before she take off.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    Does anyone know why very few ladies are doing triple-triple combo this year? I am just curious.
    Maybe the two 2a rule has something to do it? Doing a 3-3 usually allows one to add another 2a, but this season you can't do a third 2a so there's no real point in doing a 3-3 and a 2a-3t. Miki has issues with 3f so by taking it out of the SP and FS she has a better chance at going clean, she also constructed her FS intelligently with 5 jumping passes after the halfway point including two big point getting combos the 2a-3t and 2a-2lo-2lo, so it sort of makes up for not having 7 triples.

    Mirai was working on 3lz-3t but I think her time off hurt her progress on that combo so she decided not to try it in her programs this year. Also she already has two lutzes and two toes in her FS so putting in a 3-3 would require a change in jump layout and either make her give up her 2a-3t combo or do the 3s which she seems to struggle with a bit.

    Mao was working on 3lo-3lo early in the season but I think she could never really get it fully rotated. Maybe she'll bring back the 3f-3lo, but she can't in the SP unless she changes her jump out of steps from 3lo to 3lz.

    Alissa I know was trying 3t-3t a season or two back, but I don't think she's ever done it in competition. Also, given her success this year, I think it's more important that she skate her current layout cleanly, even though it's a bit conservative with 6 triples, two of them toes, two combos in the first half, and only one 2a. But her spins make up for her jump layout and I sort of doubt she could pull off a 3-3 anyway, and her 2a is one of her worst jumps so I don't see a 2a-3t coming from her either.

    Cynthia I think could definitely be capable of 3t-3t, maybe even 3lo-3t. I feel like if her SP layout was 3t-3t and 3lo she'd have more consistency with it and it would be more competitive than her current 3lz-2t (which is inconsistent) and 3t.

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    As much as i want Mirai to go to Worlds after her 4CC performance she just didn't get it done at Nationals. She didn't even skate like she wanted to win and not only didn't she win she blew a chance to go to Tokyo. Plus we all know when she gets a lead or is near the top she freezes. Who's to say she wouldn't do what she did last year at Worlds? She needs to prove to everyone including herself that she can be consistent.
    And Alissa did at 4cc. No?

  8. #518
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    Alissa I know was trying 3t-3t a season or two back, but I don't think she's ever done it in competition. Also, given her success this year, I think it's more important that she skate her current layout cleanly, even though it's a bit conservative with 6 triples, two of them toes, two combos in the first half, and only one 2a. But her spins make up for her jump layout and I sort of doubt she could pull off a 3-3 anyway, and her 2a is one of her worst jumps so I don't see a 2a-3t coming from her either.
    She doesn't need it. She's like a Lepisto or a Korpi in that she can gain points from her non-jump elements so she doesn't need fancy jumps to compete.

  9. #519
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    I agree that Alissa doesn't need to go for the 3-3. For those who may not remember, she did 3Lz+3T in her FS at 2005 Skate America -- link to a video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hY4GwLcnaY

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Great suggestion, I'm actually going to start a new thread on this on The Edge so we can get back to the thread topic on hand.
    And here's the link to the "How should the USFSA determine future world teams?" discussion in The Edge: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...re-world-teams
    Last edited by Sylvia; 02-21-2011 at 02:19 PM.

  10. #520
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    Cynthia I think could definitely be capable of 3t-3t, maybe even 3lo-3t. I feel like if her SP layout was 3t-3t and 3lo she'd have more consistency with it and it would be more competitive than her current 3lz-2t (which is inconsistent) and 3t.[/QUOTE]

    I would love for Cynthia to try a 3t-3t, she has the most amazing 3t and so much flow coming out of it

  11. #521
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    The 3Toe+3Toe and 3Loop setup for the SP has become pretty common with the European ladies. It's strange that Cynthia doesn't try a 3Toe+3Toe since that is by far her best jump, but maybe she's just not good with doing jumps in combination. It does certainly feel like she has the ability to do that combination, though.

  12. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    The 3Toe+3Toe and 3Loop setup for the SP has become pretty common with the European ladies. It's strange that Cynthia doesn't try a 3Toe+3Toe since that is by far her best jump, but maybe she's just not good with doing jumps in combination. It does certainly feel like she has the ability to do that combination, though.
    All of the European ladies, aside from Kostner(during her prime days) can't even do consistent 3F or 3Lz. That's why all their jumps are pretty much consist of 3T, 3S, 3Lo, and 2A. With 2A being limited this back to two, most will be hard press to make up the points.

    Not sure about Cynthia, but she does seem a bit heavy to be able to pull of 3T+3T. Not saying she is fat, but she sure is pretty tall and muscular and maybe thats why she struggle with jumps.

  13. #523
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    That's not true about the Russian ladies. Most of the younger Russian ladies, starting with the phenomenal Adelina Sotnikova, are consistently doing ratified 3/3s (Adelina leading the way in 3lutz/3loop with no UR calls). Even an old babushka like Alena Leonova still does the 3t/3t consistently this season, in addition to her arsenal of jumps.

    And silverlake22, Alissa was landing 3lutz/3toes, smooth and ratified, in competition in 2005 (see here). Of course, this was before the UR calls got stricter.

  14. #524
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    That 3Lutz/3Toe was not ratified and it's the only time she has went for it AFAIK.

  15. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen3000 View Post
    All of the European ladies, aside from Kostner(during her prime days) can't even do consistent 3F or 3Lz. That's why all their jumps are pretty much consist of 3T, 3S, 3Lo, and 2A. With 2A being limited this back to two, most will be hard press to make up the points.

    Not sure about Cynthia, but she does seem a bit heavy to be able to pull of 3T+3T. Not saying she is fat, but she sure is pretty tall and muscular and maybe thats why she struggle with jumps.
    A lot of the European ladies who do 3t-3t like Kostner, Korpi, Makarova, are around Cynthia's size and seem to have little issues with that combo. Given the size of Cynthia's 3t and the flow she usually gets out of it, I think she could potentially be capable of a great 3t-3t.

    As for Alissa, I agree that she doesn't need a 3-3, I mean unless she hopes to WIN worlds and then she probably would, I more just meant that I don't think we'll be seeing one from her due to the scores she can earn without one. For her, standing up on the jumps is more important than a 3-3.

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