What a stupid comment for Kurt to make. Weir doesn't even do a Biellmann.
Patrick says a male skater would lose all respect if he did one?!
I've been told that a Biellmann, being a flexibility move, is one that should only be done by girls. And any guy who does it puts his masculinity in doubt. And any guy with his masculinity in doubt might just be gay! I don't understand that mindset myself.
I wonder what Chan and Browning think of compatriot Shawn Sawyer then. Sawyer occasionally does an arabesque spiral, among other flexibility moves. So Chan and all the men he knows have no respect for Sawyer?
Sexist, homophobic and ignorant comments from Patrick and Kurt.
The young skater from Japan (Hanyu?) who just won silver at 4CC does a Biellmann. With luck he will be beating Patrick Chan at Sochi, so PC will be able to eat his words!
One of the people/organizations that Patrick follows on twitter is Neil Patrick Harris, an openly gay actor, I would give him the benefit of doubt as far as him being homophobic is concerned.
And I wonder what Kurt's gay friends think of him being called homophobic.
And, IIRC, Kurt was in Sawyer's court early on...
just don't get where any of us get to label another as something so horrible as a bigot... as if we know these people enough to know what the heck we're talking about.
President Obama is a longtime follower of Pchiddy but that and NPH are besides the point. In Patrick's real life, he is good friends with gay skaters and he pays respect to his mentors who are gay. No one who actually knows him calls him homophobic. Johnny Weir is the only one carrying on with catty remarks about him but then Johnny does the same with other skaters, in his public statements and in his book.Originally Posted by fscric
Patrick was teased a lot as gay when he was growing up practicing his skating. So he may be a bit sensitive about being called gay, not because he's homophobic but because no one likes to be identified as a wrong gender or sexual orientation.
Those who look for Chan bashing opportunities better come up with facts rather than twisted interpretation of some words.
eta: All male figure skaters suffer from gay bashing regardless of their sexuality. I doubt very much any of them would do gay bashing himself or be homophobic in this sport. There is no need to add accusation of homophobia to what they have already had to endure.
Also, I've been hoping for Kurt And Patty Show, The Sequel. I hate that such narrowly focused and negative attention and harsh words may discourage and deter them.
Last edited by Violet Bliss; 02-20-2011 at 07:33 PM.
I understand that he simply stated a fact: "You sort of lose respect among the men if you do a Beilmann spin", just as it is still a general fact that one would lose respect among the men for acting like a gay. But Whether he likes it or not, Patrick is a celebrity now, a public figure that not only enjoys fame but also has his share of social responsibility. Kids internalize behavioral standards through watching what their idols do on TV or internet programs. What Patrick did to those kids is reinforcing their fear of being different. Please, Patrick, if you cannot help changing the negativity besetting the gay community, do not help reinforcing it. All you have to do is to shut your god damn mouth.
I'm not calling for Kurt Browning and Patrick Chan to be tarred and feathered or punished in any way. I'm just pointing out that something they said is ignorant, prejudiced and stupid. You can be fans of a skater without thinking everything they say is completely enlightened. I'm sure in real life, we're all friends with people who sometimes say ignorant things, just as many of us do ourselves. And when ignorant things are said, they should be corrected. That's how people learn.
A study guide for Kurt Browning, Patrick Chan and their apologists:
The Biellmann spin isn't exclusive to a gender. Women do it more often because they're both more likely to train for it and more likely to be biologically suited for it. A man who does the Biellmann not only doesn't deserve disrespect, as Chan suggested, but should be admired for having the talent, hard work and open-mindedness to train something that's harder for their gender.
Last edited by skatinginbc; 02-20-2011 at 10:44 PM.
Last edited by skatinginbc; 02-20-2011 at 10:38 PM.
Serious Business and Skatinginbc, what you say about how some people behave and why they behave so are true but they are not absolutely and universally true. They are not true about Kurt and Patrick.
They were first laughing at themselves for never going to be able to do the Bielmann spin. They laughed at Kurt's one attempt and the painful consequences. And Patrick blurted out "I wish", so I think they have full respect for such a difficult maneuver. The Weir mention and the respect thing are more of a knee jerk joking excuse for their own inability, insensitive but not homophobic. Hey, the two of them were talking about their affection for each other, complete with a kiss and tender touchings. They certainly didn't concern themselves with others' possible perception of such interaction. They are man enough.
Patrick never offers up being friends with gays as covers of anything. It is me simply stating what I see, which is him interacting sincerely and loyally with these friends, not differently from non gay friends. IOW, their sexuality is not an issue in any way, positive or negative. They are just friends. He has gotten himself bashed by sticking up for them in other matters. Speaking of respect, the video shows him, with Kurt, praising and admiring other skaters, just as he has always done, except his kind and complimentary words never get any attention whereas anything he says that can be spun negatively are spread globally. Just as only a few seconds of this 30 minutes of fun and informative video get the intense attention and give another opportunity for him to be bent into even worse image than some people already have of him.
Who among us can live up to a standard of saying just the perfect things all the time, under scrutiny? It is the complete picture, especially the deeds and the actual effects of these deeds and words that matter the most. Kurt and Patrick have both demonstrated admirable traits and given their time and effort to perform many kind and charitable acts and services. They have inspired many to try hard and thrive. They have brought joy, comfort and encouragement to many. They have always treated others with respect and kindness - just ask anybody who has met them. They have NOT commited nor promoted hatred of any kind. If someone wants to define them instead with a few moments of less than perfect articulations now and again, there is nothing they can do about it, because nobody can live up to such standard. Definitely not those who throw stones mercilessly.
Skatinginbc, I understand you are not a hater. And I believe you have very good reasons to resent and take these kinds of offences extremely seriously, as we all should. However, I also feel such feelings are so intense and personal that you can be over vigilant and quick to convict. Sometimes, the issue may not lie with the person you find offensive with perceived dispicable sins. You can better the society if you turn your attention to the real perps.
FWIW, I can tell you I have personally experienced horrible prejudices most of my life. I too know what it's like to be targeted and treated badly and unfairly, often maliciously but sometimes without the awareness of the perpetrators as it is so natural to them. I'm not speaking form a position of privilege or a prefered status quo.
Last edited by Violet Bliss; 02-20-2011 at 11:25 PM.
Wow, wow, wow! What did those offences come from?
Everyone does accept that men and women are different by nature, right? To say the fact that men and women are different is sexist? Something men do, women don't. And vise versa. Bielmann-spin belonged to women untill Plushenko did it. He did a women's move. That was the ugliest move in men's skating. I would guess that this spin was widely viewed in skating community as a women's spin. Plushenko is not gay. Johnny Weir is. Johnny Weir has never done a bielmann-spin, but Johnny likes to act like a woman. Kurt said "Leave that to Johnny Weir." meant that bielmann-spin is a women's movement. What they were talking about was a movement. What did that have anything to do with gay bashing, homophobic, sexist, or anything?! Over sensitive! I really don't understand what have offended anyone? There was nothing wrong with what Patrick and Kurt said.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 02-21-2011 at 09:37 AM.
SF, I'm sorry you have had to face prejudice. I live in a large city where people of all kinds mostly get along, and I like to hope that we're moving forward. But human nature being what it is, I know that we haven't advanced all that much just yet--or we haven't all advanced at the same pace. I guess this means that all the great work hasn't been done in the world, and that we get to do some of it!