What do you want to see at Worlds for the Men?

blue_idealist · Apr 20, 2011

Maybe the 6 falls thing was a slight exaggeration - 3 might be enough. :rolleye:

Mathman · Apr 20, 2011

Why is everyone putting bad karma on Patrick? He is no more likely to fall than Takahashi or Oda. Or Joubert or Verner.

Ravensque · Apr 20, 2011

In all fairness to Patrick, those falls were early in the season........when he was first adding his quads. Later on at Nats, and 4C's to the best of my recollection he nailed pretty much everything and his quads are beautiful...........Now he has all the goods..........speed, footwork, edging, no real rests or posing, no pelvic thrusts (thank God), and all the jumps. This kid has all the goods.

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 20, 2011

Joesitz said:
Interesting thoughts, MM. Patrick and Dai are expected to fight it out in this Championship with 2 other Japanese skaters to join them as well as Joubert. But there are so many male skaters worth watching to make it the most collossal competition ever. Top 10? I think Top 20!

Seriously. I love this group of men. So many skaters with something interesting to offer.

SkateFiguring said:
Seriously, Chan has one huge advantage in SP over everyone else. He does footwork into his 4T and 3F so he can tack the 3T onto either one of these jumps depending on how well he does his first jump, the 4T. Others with quads in their SP, like Joubert, Oda, and Reynolds, have to make their quads the combo jumps without footwork entries, so it will be hit or miss for them. Of course, Chan does not even need to do a 4/3; that's just for show off.

Reynolds does two quads in his program, so isn't one going to be from a footwork entry?

pangtongfan · Apr 21, 2011

silverlake22 said:
Quadless Verner beat Chan with 4 falls at Cup of Russia, and I know that was just because Chan Zayaked, but still, I think 6 falls is a little extreme, considering Verner and Joubert are pretty equal and Joubert AFAIK will be attempting a quad in both the SP and FS at Worlds. 3 falls from Chan would likely be enough for a clean Joubert to beat him. It might only take 1 or 2 falls from Chan for a clean/almost clean Takahashi or Kozuka to win, I mean, Takahashi is the reigning world champ and has been building momentum all season and Kozuka scored over 170 for his LP at TEB.

If Joubert and Verner both skated cleanly right now I am sure Verner would win. Joubert is past his prime and is only somewhat a threat due to his experience. In front of international jugdes even Amodio is starting to beat him in PCS.

Chan had a downgrade and Zayaked as you said so had atleast 6 falls worth of mistakes in Russia even if he only had 4 literal falls, and still nearly beat Verner who as I said has more scoring potential than Joubert right now IMO.

pangtongfan · Apr 21, 2011

blue_idealist said:
Maybe the 6 falls thing was a slight exaggeration - 3 might be enough.

If Joubert skated cleanly with 3 quads, did his most COP friendly jump layout ever, greatly improved the excitement and choreographic value of his program, and the French federation did some heavy politiking, then yeah he might beat a 3 fall only Chan in that case.

Violet Bliss · Apr 21, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
Reynolds does two quads in his program, so isn't one going to be from a footwork entry?

You are right. He must do footwork entry into his 2nd quad, a 4T. However, he has only succeeded once. Can he really do it? I hope he will bring it at Worlds.

pangtongfan · Apr 21, 2011

On another note how will Russel fare. I had to be pesstimistic but I think he will do terribly. He doesnt have any jump arsenal relative to other international men and internationally he gets much lower PCS than even Reynolds. I just hope he had a great comptetition for himself regardless of the placing as this will probably be his only ever Worlds.

carignan · Apr 21, 2011

Skatefiguring said:
Seriously, Chan has one huge advantage in SP over everyone else.

Yes, but he still has a problem on his 3A. Do you think he owns it completely now?

Joesitz (RIP) · Apr 21, 2011

Patrick is a fine skater and one of the many top skaters of today. His reputation for Falling maybe exaggerated. It could be that he gets somewhat over excited when in competition and loses his technique. However, I doubt that happens all the time. I'm looking forward to a clean skate by Patrick at Worlds 2011.

I'm hoping all the boys skate their best because I do not want to sit through a splatfest.

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 21, 2011

pangtongfan said:
On another note how will Russel fare. I had to be pesstimistic but I think he will do terribly. He doesnt have any jump arsenal relative to other international men and internationally he gets much lower PCS than even Reynolds. I just hope he had a great comptetition for himself regardless of the placing as this will probably be his only ever Worlds.

What is terribly? I think I'll be happy if he makes the free. As for this being his only worlds.... I dunno, if Reynolds does well enough to maintain three spots with Chan, he could be back (though I wouldn't be surprised to see Rogozine take the third spot). Lets be honest, we saw this season that only Chan's spot is secure on the National team, so I wouldn't write Russell off completely.

silverlake22 · Apr 21, 2011

pangtongfan said:
If Joubert and Verner both skated cleanly right now I am sure Verner would win. Joubert is past his prime and is only somewhat a threat due to his experience. In front of international jugdes even Amodio is starting to beat him in PCS.

Chan had a downgrade and Zayaked as you said so had atleast 6 falls worth of mistakes in Russia even if he only had 4 literal falls, and still nearly beat Verner who as I said has more scoring potential than Joubert right now IMO.

I think this is true, Amodio and Verner beat Joubert in PCS in both programs at Euros, and although Joubert's FS at Euros was good technically, he really took out like all the transitions, so I doubt he can expect to score that well at Worlds even if he is clean unless he puts some transitions back into his programs.

The SP is key for Tomas I think, where he is not attempting a quad in it and will receive negative GOE for his lip (unless he's decided to change and go for the loop instead - which I haven't understood all season considering he has a divine 3lo which would net him a couple extra points vs the 3lip), so he really has to land his 3a, and convincingly. His SP is great and he's been getting deservedly good PCS for it all season, and he's actually been surprisingly consistent in the FS all season, so if he can nail the SP he's probably looking at high 70s which would put him in a good position after the SP to be in the hunt for a medal most likely.

Yagudinah · Apr 21, 2011

I 'm rooting for Michal Brezina. I love his short program. The chances of a top-5 or even better are slim, but who knows... I'm just hoping he does really really well.
...

Mathman · Apr 21, 2011

Welcome, Yagudinah. Thanks for joining us. Hope you like it here. :yes:

blue_idealist · Apr 21, 2011

pangtongfan said:
On another note how will Russel fare. I had to be pesstimistic but I think he will do terribly. He doesnt have any jump arsenal relative to other international men and internationally he gets much lower PCS than even Reynolds. I just hope he had a great comptetition for himself regardless of the placing as this will probably be his only ever Worlds.

I think Russell will get around 20th place. I think he was 14th at 4CC, although it might have been 17th and I'm too lazy to go check the results again. He probably should get higher PCs than Reynolds though even if he doesn't. I don't think this will be his only Worlds though. Sawyer's retiring so he has a good chance of making the podium again next year. Only Chan will for sure beat him at Nationals next year (although Reynolds and Rogozine have a good chance to).

silverlake22 · Apr 21, 2011

Yagudinah said:
I 'm rooting for Michal Brezina. I love his short program. The chances of a top-5 or even better are slim, but who knows... I'm just hoping he does really really well.
...

I'd love to see 2 Czechs on the podium :rock:

or more realistically in the top 5

janetfan · Apr 22, 2011

silverlake22 said:
I'd love to see 2 Czechs on the podium or more realistically in the top 5

Even more realistically in the top 10 or maybe even top 15.

I like Brezina but haven't seen him lately and have no idea what kind of shape he is in.

silverlake22 · Apr 22, 2011

Hernando said:
Even more realistically in the top 10 or maybe even top 15.

I like Brezina but haven't seen him lately and have no idea what kind of shape he is in.

Well both Tomas and Michal have already finished 4th at Worlds, Tomas twice, so it is feasible.

Violet Bliss · Apr 22, 2011

I believe Brezina suffered some injury so it has not been a great season for him. I seriously doubt he will be in top 5 this year. Tomas, OTOH, has been doing really well this year, being the only one to have won an event against Chan and he made it to the GPF. He's also planning on doing a quad at Worlds.

Nena · Apr 22, 2011

silverlake22 said:
Well both Tomas and Michal have already finished 4th at Worlds, Tomas twice, so it is feasible.

But Michal only finished 8th at Euros and was 10th in the free. I really doubt he will make top 5 at Worlds this time.

What do you want to see at Worlds for the Men?

blue_idealist

Mathman

Ravensque

ImaginaryPogue

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

Violet Bliss

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

carignan

Joesitz (RIP)

ImaginaryPogue

silverlake22

Yagudinah

Mathman

blue_idealist

silverlake22

janetfan

Match Penalty

silverlake22

Violet Bliss

Nena

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