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Thread: What do you want to see at Worlds for the Men?

  1. #31
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    I would like Gachinski to do well and place in the top 10 because the faster Russia has 2 spots the faster it can be on the track to have 3 spots for the 2014 Sochi Olympics. So like maybe this year Gachinksi could could get 2 spots and maybe in 2012 it could be Gachinski and Plushenko (fingers crossed!!!) then maybe they could get 3 and in 2013 it could be Gachinski, Plushenko, Dmitriev and hopefully 3 spots for Sochi!!

  2. #32
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    Simple. I have no favorites. Just gimme Good Skating and Honest Judging.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    6.) Dornbush -- I think if any one can sneak to the final group, it's this guy. As I said before, he's 11th on the the SB's list, and three of the folks above him won't be at Worlds. Verner and Joubert will be his main competition, me thinks, but I think he has the skill and tech content to beat them.

    9.) Bradley -- He tech content is very competitive and while his skating skills and speed is not as good as the top men, I think it's no worse than the likes of KDVP, Contesti and others. This placement will also keep 3 spots for the U.S.
    6 + 9 = 15 = 2 spots. 13 is the number to reach to get 3 spots.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    IP, I perhaps ought to amend my churlishness: I want either Patrick to skate perfectly (in which case he will of course win, and should win, despite the fact that he bores me to tears) or to fall four times. What I do not want is for him to fall 3 times and win. And based on the way the season has gone, he could fall 3 times and would win. So it has to be 4 times.

    I have seen him skate a number of times at Liberty, and he doesn't knock my socks off. He impresses me, and his basic skating has many admirable qualities, but I would not pay to see him skate.
    If I recall, Liberty's the only place you've seen him skate, right? Has he ever done well at Liberty? Does he still bore you to tears when he skates like he does 4CC short 2009 or Nationals 2011 LP? I recall you saying you'd prefer to watch Bradley skate, which is fair enough but a gene I don't possess. So if Bradley beats Chan, I might swear off figure skating!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    1.) For the one spot to happen the following scenarios would have to happen from least likely to most likely.
    a. All three guys don't qualify for the LP. This is really unlikely. All three would have to miss all their jumps and botch a few spins in the process.
    b. two skaters miss the LP and the skater that does ends up finishing outside the top 10.
    c. One doesn't qualify, and the two remaining skaters end up finishing below 14th place.
    d. All three qualify for the LP, but all end up finishing below 14th place.

    Out of all those choices, I say C and D are the most likely scenarios, should such a scenario happens.
    Agreed, though I think (like you) D is the most likely. But I've copped to it being unlikely. And I've admitted that if it doesn't cause a change in the way the USFSA handles things, then I'd pretend never to have wanted it and root for Dornbush and Miner to come 13th and 15th to get those two spots for the skaters left behind.

    But here's some things to consider.
    1.) Ryan Bradley, with an injured foot and a non-existent triple axel still managed to finish in 18th place.
    2.) Miner did not do well at the GP, but people forget that he was AT the GP. His eh-ish short program score will easily be enough to make the LP.
    3.) Dornbush, I think has the capacity to surprise. His season's best score from the JGPF is just outside the top 10 (11th) despite high scores at 4CC.
    1. Bradley, when healthy finished in 15th place in 2007. Bradley now is undertrained, with no competitions this season and is an older man with the x-rays of an 80 year old (his quote, not mine).
    2. Miner yes, was at the GP. If we take the skaters who skated his two events, and filter out those not at worlds, eight individuals beat him (Takahashi, Amodio, Sawyer, van der Perren, Contesti, Kozuka, Verner, Joubert)
    3. Dornbush CAN definitely surprise. And hell, secretly, I'm glad they sent him to senior worlds as it allows Rogozine and Firus the chance to claim three spots at World Juniors for 2012 AND boosts Canada's chances at being top three nations, thus mazimizing JGP possibilities.

    Can they finish worse? Yes. Can they finish better, definitely Yes.
    Yes and yes.


    Also IP, I don't understand why you're so about the USFSA changing their system when Skate Canada pretty much does the same thing. I mean in 2004 they left Buttle at home for a skater name Ben Ferreira. Granted Buttle was only 15th in Worlds the previous year, but he did have a successful GP series.

    But then again, I don't know the innerworkings of Skate Canada, so maybe there's something I don't know about.
    Nor do I. For all the accusations of mafia style corruption and political chicanery, I've always assumed the Skate Canada would exert more control over the process. If they are strict Nationalists (sorry), I'd like to see that change. The difference is that I don't see that making much difference. That you have to go back to 2004 is a pretty good statement that it doesn't.

  5. #35
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    What I would like to see is Chan to skate like he did at Canadians and still lose to Takahashi who skates the performance of his life and gets a bit of home town boost (which negates some of what I call the automatic Chan boost in scores) and Chan then runs his mouth off like a spoiled brat like he did many times the last 2 years.

  6. #36
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    Heh. Actually, what you really want is him to win w/ four or five falls, so you can keep complaining!
    Last edited by ImaginaryPogue; 02-23-2011 at 09:20 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I would like Gachinski to do well and place in the top 10 because the faster Russia has 2 spots the faster it can be on the track to have 3 spots for the 2014 Sochi Olympics. So like maybe this year Gachinksi could could get 2 spots and maybe in 2012 it could be Gachinski and Plushenko (fingers crossed!!!) then maybe they could get 3 and in 2013 it could be Gachinski, Plushenko, Dmitriev and hopefully 3 spots for Sochi!!
    This will be the best result.

  8. #38
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    I've tried three times to respond to this thread - and every time I do, I get stuck or change my mind. I can't believe how many men will skate who I want to see do their very best AND if they do their very best could be a medalist or at least in the top five.

    So, like always - the disclaimer - I want them all to skate their best and feel good about it.

    That said: I have a real soft spot for some of the "older" guys who might be winding down or retiring as well as some of the guys that just don't seem to do in comps what we all know they can do and will definitely be rooting for all of them. This includes Dai who might be retiring from comps soon - and if he were to shine at home that would be so, so wonderful (and I'm an "uber" fan of his).

    Of course, if Oda could land his jumps AND NOT do too many, that would be so cool. And, I'm such a huge fan of T. Kazuka that I simply cannot wait to see his skates and really hope he does well. So, I love the Japanese men and since it is in Japan - I will be totally rooting for them too.

    If Chan could repeat his Can Nat LP - that would be cool beyond words (just the accomplishment of that), although then it messes with the first two groups of men I am rooting for - and then the list goes on (I will totally root for the "newbies" too)....

    Basically, I don't know what to really wish for other than great skates and cannot wait!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    6 + 9 = 15 = 2 spots. 13 is the number to reach to get 3 spots.
    Opps, yeah I knew that. My math was fuzzy late in the night!

    That said, I still wouldn't change my wish placements for either Dornbush (6th) or Bradley (9th), even if in my scenario it would mean losing a spot.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post

    Agreed, though I think (like you) D is the most likely. But I've copped to it being unlikely. And I've admitted that if it doesn't cause a change in the way the USFSA handles things, then I'd pretend never to have wanted it and root for Dornbush and Miner to come 13th and 15th to get those two spots for the skaters left behind.

    1. Bradley, when healthy finished in 15th place in 2007. Bradley now is undertrained, with no competitions this season and is an older man with the x-rays of an 80 year old (his quote, not mine).
    2. Miner yes, was at the GP. If we take the skaters who skated his two events, and filter out those not at worlds, eight individuals beat him (Takahashi, Amodio, Sawyer, van der Perren, Contesti, Kozuka, Verner, Joubert)
    3. Dornbush CAN definitely surprise. And hell, secretly, I'm glad they sent him to senior worlds as it allows Rogozine and Firus the chance to claim three spots at World Juniors for 2012 AND boosts Canada's chances at being top three nations, thus mazimizing JGP possibilities.
    1.) But IMO this Bradley, unlike the 2007 Bradley, this one has the Triple Axel that has plagued him throughout his career. And he has a quad, which is noteworthy considering that on Chan and a few of the European men have consistently done it. Granted the Triple Axels may go by the wayside when it comes for international competition, but there's something to be said about inner resolve, and I think Bradley has it this year.
    2.) As others have established here as well as Miner, that was not his best performance. Consider this: Miner had not competed since the 2009 season. He had an injury in the 2009-2010 season that kept him from competing. It's a similar scenario to Daisuke last year. When you haven't competed for an entire season, it will be a rough road those first few competitions. (Actually you can apply Patrick Chan in this category as well as he came to Skate Canada off an injury). I think his Nationals performance is an indication of things to come rather than the fluke everyone is seeing it as.
    3.) Well, glad that Canada gets some gain out of Dorbush's victory. That said the international judges clearly like this guy. When you have the 11th highest score from a junior competition, that fares well for your chances.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    1.) But IMO this Bradley, unlike the 2007 Bradley, this one has the Triple Axel that has plagued him throughout his career. And he has a quad, which is noteworthy considering that on Chan and a few of the European men have consistently done it. Granted the Triple Axels may go by the wayside when it comes for international competition, but there's something to be said about inner resolve, and I think Bradley has it this year.
    2.) As others have established here as well as Miner, that was not his best performance. Consider this: Miner had not competed since the 2009 season. He had an injury in the 2009-2010 season that kept him from competing. It's a similar scenario to Daisuke last year. When you haven't competed for an entire season, it will be a rough road those first few competitions. (Actually you can apply Patrick Chan in this category as well as he came to Skate Canada off an injury). I think his Nationals performance is an indication of things to come rather than the fluke everyone is seeing it as.
    3.) Well, glad that Canada gets some gain out of Dorbush's victory. That said the international judges clearly like this guy. When you have the 11th highest score from a junior competition, that fares well for your chances.
    Sorry, lets be clear what I believe will happen. In 2008, two senior neophytes had their worlds debut - Stephen Carriere and Jeremy Abbott. They ranked tenth and eleventh. Wier came third so they got three spots, but on their own they would've been fine for two.

    I think there are only a handful of skaters who are "guaranteed" to beat the American trio: Chan, the Japanese troika and the Frenchmen. Yes, yes, ice is slippery, but any of these six ranking behind the Americans would constitute a MAJOR shock to my system, frankly.

    Then there are so many skaters that COULD potentially beat them. Could. Maybe. Possibly. In the realm of human experience. These include Verner, Brezina, Schlutheiss, Contesti, D. Ten, Fernandez, Majorov, van der Perren, Gachinsky etc.

    I think that given the odds of everyone skating well (Fernandez, Brezina coming back from injury, D. Ten has fallen more than Patrick Chan this season etc) being what they are, the Americans should be able to get two spots. Three would require a massive fluke. But it'll be a fight, not a walk in the park.

    Miner did compete in the 09/10 season - he came third in the JGPF. He missed Nationals because of that injury.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Sorry, lets be clear what I believe will happen. In 2008, two senior neophytes had their worlds debut - Stephen Carriere and Jeremy Abbott. They ranked tenth and eleventh. Wier came third so they got three spots, but on their own they would've been fine for two.

    I think there are only a handful of skaters who are "guaranteed" to beat the American trio: Chan, the Japanese troika and the Frenchmen. Yes, yes, ice is slippery, but any of these six ranking behind the Americans would constitute a MAJOR shock to my system, frankly.

    Then there are so many skaters that COULD potentially beat them. Could. Maybe. Possibly. In the realm of human experience. These include Verner, Brezina, Schlutheiss, Contesti, D. Ten, Fernandez, Majorov, van der Perren, Gachinsky etc.

    I think that given the odds of everyone skating well (Fernandez, Brezina coming back from injury, D. Ten has fallen more than Patrick Chan this season etc) being what they are, the Americans should be able to get two spots. Three would require a massive fluke. But it'll be a fight, not a walk in the park.

    Miner did compete in the 09/10 season - he came third in the JGPF. He missed Nationals because of that injury.
    Right, I forgot about JGPF. In any case, by the GP series, he was still off the ice for months, so I'm not surprised by rough start by Miner.

    Also, I never that getting three spots would be a walk in the park. Yes it will be a fight for sure. But I'm hoping for some surprises.

    I guess the other issue is that I haven't really been impressed with the Europeans, save Verner, Amodio and Joubert to an extent. I don't feel like KDVP, Schlutheiss, Contesti, D. Ten, Fernandez, Majorov, Gachinski have THAT much, or even any, more to offer than the three U.S. guys. Brezina is a ? after a relatively poor showing at Euros.

    The only ones who I think will be tough/impossible to beat are Dice-K/Oda/Kozuka and Patrick Chan.

    ETA: I realize there is a difference, IP, in your "wish" for what will happen and what you think will "actually" happen. I guess I just believe my wish (for at least two spots, if not three) will match what will happen.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 02-23-2011 at 02:58 PM.

  13. #43
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    Patrick does have good basic skating but he always seems to me like he is off balance. I don't get the assuredness from him as I do with Oda and Dornbush both of whom have good basic skating also.

    Two poor skates by Miner in the GPs gave me a bit of a mistrust for him in spite of his great skate with the home crowd. Hope I'm wrong. Would prefer to watch Hanyu again rather than Kosuka who is much too methodical for my tastes.

    The European boys are on the march to greater glory. This has to be a great competition. Hoping Brezina is all healed.

  14. #44
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    I think Bradley has a good chance to score well -- maybe even above this board's favorite, Dornbush. If he does two quads and two triple Axels, who else in the competition can? Maybe that will carry over into the PCSs enough to overcome his deficit in choreography.

  15. #45
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    two 3a's, two 4t's in the LP; 1 3A, 1 4t in the SP

    Many a time it did the trick for Plushenko, despite relatively transitionless skating.

    And depending on whether Ryan's style amuses the Japanese enough to get him some standing ovations, I expect to see a bit of PCS raising go on-not to Chan level, of course, but to middle of the road level for sure.

    Perhaps we should realize that the US judging while a little inflated in PCS was not all that far off 4CC's. Many a poster here has argued that Rachael Flatt is hated by the international judges, and so will not get better than her GP levels.

    Check out what Rachael got at 4CCs in her SP compared to US Nats. She skated the two programs approximately the same:

    Rachael at us nats 62.32
    PCS 30.77

    At 4CCs 62.23
    pcs 28.80

    Now during the GP, the best Rach could do in the SP was

    SA
    51.42 PCS 26.74
    and

    NHK
    53.69/PCS 25.40


    The new EoE SP is playing hugely better with the International judges, just as with the US National judges. And it shows in both the TES and the PCS.

    In fact, the international tech committee was less stingy than the US nats, giving her a Level 3 on the layback, vs. level 1 at US Nats. (or she did the LB better...) Plus the judges were a little less stingy with GOE, because Rachael's score in the SP was much the same in the two comps. (2 points less in PCS, 2 points more in TES)

    So the GP is not a predictor of PCS at Worlds necessarily, especially when the skater makes a big improvement and is skating a different program.

    It's fair to assume that Bradley skates better on a whole foot than a broken foot, which should affect his PCS. Landing the jumps won't hurt. And his Dark Eyes program was not good for him at all. BWBB is a good fit. That doesn't mean he'll skate like at Nats though, but I can hope.

    OTOH, I would like Patrick better if every time I've seen him, he wasn't skating through his music, something I really don't like. Perhaps his musicality improves by Canadian Nationals, but the only Canadian Nationals & 4CC's footage I've seen from him is badly synched streaming coverage-and everyone looks like they're skating through their music with that kind of media.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 02-23-2011 at 04:05 PM.

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