What do you want to see at Worlds for the Men? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

What do you want to see at Worlds for the Men?

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
1.) But IMO this Bradley, unlike the 2007 Bradley, this one has the Triple Axel that has plagued him throughout his career. And he has a quad, which is noteworthy considering that on Chan and a few of the European men have consistently done it. Granted the Triple Axels may go by the wayside when it comes for international competition, but there's something to be said about inner resolve, and I think Bradley has it this year.
2.) As others have established here as well as Miner, that was not his best performance. Consider this: Miner had not competed since the 2009 season. He had an injury in the 2009-2010 season that kept him from competing. It's a similar scenario to Daisuke last year. When you haven't competed for an entire season, it will be a rough road those first few competitions. (Actually you can apply Patrick Chan in this category as well as he came to Skate Canada off an injury). I think his Nationals performance is an indication of things to come rather than the fluke everyone is seeing it as.
3.) Well, glad that Canada gets some gain out of Dorbush's victory. :) That said the international judges clearly like this guy. When you have the 11th highest score from a junior competition, that fares well for your chances.

Sorry, lets be clear what I believe will happen. In 2008, two senior neophytes had their worlds debut - Stephen Carriere and Jeremy Abbott. They ranked tenth and eleventh. Wier came third so they got three spots, but on their own they would've been fine for two.

I think there are only a handful of skaters who are "guaranteed" to beat the American trio: Chan, the Japanese troika and the Frenchmen. Yes, yes, ice is slippery, but any of these six ranking behind the Americans would constitute a MAJOR shock to my system, frankly.

Then there are so many skaters that COULD potentially beat them. Could. Maybe. Possibly. In the realm of human experience. These include Verner, Brezina, Schlutheiss, Contesti, D. Ten, Fernandez, Majorov, van der Perren, Gachinsky etc.

I think that given the odds of everyone skating well (Fernandez, Brezina coming back from injury, D. Ten has fallen more than Patrick Chan this season etc) being what they are, the Americans should be able to get two spots. Three would require a massive fluke. But it'll be a fight, not a walk in the park.

Miner did compete in the 09/10 season - he came third in the JGPF. He missed Nationals because of that injury.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Sorry, lets be clear what I believe will happen. In 2008, two senior neophytes had their worlds debut - Stephen Carriere and Jeremy Abbott. They ranked tenth and eleventh. Wier came third so they got three spots, but on their own they would've been fine for two.

I think there are only a handful of skaters who are "guaranteed" to beat the American trio: Chan, the Japanese troika and the Frenchmen. Yes, yes, ice is slippery, but any of these six ranking behind the Americans would constitute a MAJOR shock to my system, frankly.

Then there are so many skaters that COULD potentially beat them. Could. Maybe. Possibly. In the realm of human experience. These include Verner, Brezina, Schlutheiss, Contesti, D. Ten, Fernandez, Majorov, van der Perren, Gachinsky etc.

I think that given the odds of everyone skating well (Fernandez, Brezina coming back from injury, D. Ten has fallen more than Patrick Chan this season etc) being what they are, the Americans should be able to get two spots. Three would require a massive fluke. But it'll be a fight, not a walk in the park.

Miner did compete in the 09/10 season - he came third in the JGPF. He missed Nationals because of that injury.

Right, I forgot about JGPF. In any case, by the GP series, he was still off the ice for months, so I'm not surprised by rough start by Miner.

Also, I never that getting three spots would be a walk in the park. Yes it will be a fight for sure. But I'm hoping for some surprises. :)

I guess the other issue is that I haven't really been impressed with the Europeans, save Verner, Amodio and Joubert to an extent. I don't feel like KDVP, Schlutheiss, Contesti, D. Ten, Fernandez, Majorov, Gachinski have THAT much, or even any, more to offer than the three U.S. guys. Brezina is a ? after a relatively poor showing at Euros.

The only ones who I think will be tough/impossible to beat are Dice-K/Oda/Kozuka and Patrick Chan.

ETA: I realize there is a difference, IP, in your "wish" for what will happen and what you think will "actually" happen. I guess I just believe my wish (for at least two spots, if not three) will match what will happen.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Patrick does have good basic skating but he always seems to me like he is off balance. I don't get the assuredness from him as I do with Oda and Dornbush both of whom have good basic skating also.

Two poor skates by Miner in the GPs gave me a bit of a mistrust for him in spite of his great skate with the home crowd. Hope I'm wrong. Would prefer to watch Hanyu again rather than Kosuka who is much too methodical for my tastes.

The European boys are on the march to greater glory. This has to be a great competition. Hoping Brezina is all healed.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I think Bradley has a good chance to score well -- maybe even above this board's favorite, Dornbush. :) If he does two quads and two triple Axels, who else in the competition can? Maybe that will carry over into the PCSs enough to overcome his deficit in choreography.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
two 3a's, two 4t's in the LP; 1 3A, 1 4t in the SP

Many a time it did the trick for Plushenko, despite relatively transitionless skating.

And depending on whether Ryan's style amuses the Japanese enough to get him some standing ovations, I expect to see a bit of PCS raising go on-not to Chan level, of course, but to middle of the road level for sure.

Perhaps we should realize that the US judging while a little inflated in PCS was not all that far off 4CC's. Many a poster here has argued that Rachael Flatt is hated by the international judges, and so will not get better than her GP levels.

Check out what Rachael got at 4CCs in her SP compared to US Nats. She skated the two programs approximately the same:

Rachael at us nats 62.32
PCS 30.77

At 4CCs 62.23
pcs 28.80

Now during the GP, the best Rach could do in the SP was

SA
51.42 PCS 26.74
and

NHK
53.69/PCS 25.40


The new EoE SP is playing hugely better with the International judges, just as with the US National judges. And it shows in both the TES and the PCS.

In fact, the international tech committee was less stingy than the US nats, giving her a Level 3 on the layback, vs. level 1 at US Nats. (or she did the LB better...) Plus the judges were a little less stingy with GOE, because Rachael's score in the SP was much the same in the two comps. (2 points less in PCS, 2 points more in TES)

So the GP is not a predictor of PCS at Worlds necessarily, especially when the skater makes a big improvement and is skating a different program.

It's fair to assume that Bradley skates better on a whole foot than a broken foot, which should affect his PCS. Landing the jumps won't hurt. And his Dark Eyes program was not good for him at all. BWBB is a good fit. That doesn't mean he'll skate like at Nats though, but I can hope.

OTOH, I would like Patrick better if every time I've seen him, he wasn't skating through his music, something I really don't like. Perhaps his musicality improves by Canadian Nationals, but the only Canadian Nationals & 4CC's footage I've seen from him is badly synched streaming coverage-and everyone looks like they're skating through their music with that kind of media.
 
Last edited:

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Sorry, lets be clear what I believe will happen. In 2008, two senior neophytes had their worlds debut - Stephen Carriere and Jeremy Abbott. They ranked tenth and eleventh. Wier came third so they got three spots, but on their own they would've been fine for two.

I think there are only a handful of skaters who are "guaranteed" to beat the American trio: Chan, the Japanese troika and the Frenchmen. Yes, yes, ice is slippery, but any of these six ranking behind the Americans would constitute a MAJOR shock to my system, frankly.

Then there are so many skaters that COULD potentially beat them. Could. Maybe. Possibly. In the realm of human experience. These include Verner, Brezina, Schlutheiss, Contesti, D. Ten, Fernandez, Majorov, van der Perren, Gachinsky etc.

I think that given the odds of everyone skating well (Fernandez, Brezina coming back from injury, D. Ten has fallen more than Patrick Chan this season etc) being what they are, the Americans should be able to get two spots. Three would require a massive fluke. But it'll be a fight, not a walk in the park.

Miner did compete in the 09/10 season - he came third in the JGPF. He missed Nationals because of that injury.

I agree with this assessment. Really the 3 American men could all finish from 7th to 17th depending on exactly how they skate and their competitors skate so 3 spots is not realistic at all. 2 spots they should manage but 2 guys will have to skate well to ensure that.
 

ivy

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
I'm a bit late to the party here but here's my wish list

1. Chan
2. Kozuka
3. Takahashi
4. Bradley
5. Oda
6. Miner
7. Dornbush
8. Gachinshki

Everyone else

Kozuka is really my favorite - but I think it would take mistakes from Chan for him to win - I don't want that! Oda I would expect to place higher - but I just don't really like his skating - or his program this year. The Europeans I'm finding boring and sort of empty - a little surprised to find myself liking Gachinski the most interesting of the lot.

Really though - I also want to see great skating- justly rewarded
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Mrs. P, my thoughts on the rest

1. No, I know you never said three spots = stroll. But I think TWO spots will be a fight. Essentially, if one of the three American men skate their best, two spots should easily graspable. If all three have average skates, it's not.

2. Contesti tends to peak later in the season. 5th and 7th at two Worlds in a row. He's coming off a confidence booster @ Mt. Blanc breaking 80/150 in his programs.

3. D. Ten isn't someone I'm expecting to beat the Americans. He has the potential, but he's massively inconsistent.

4. I fully expect the Russian Fed to politick hard for Gachinski. Plushenko's heir apparent, with the rest of the field inconsistent (Tretiakov, Voronov), injured (Borodulin) or unlikely to make it to Sochi (Menshov). Plus he has a quad.

5. KVDP, Schlutheiss were top ten last year.

6. Doris, I'd argue that 4CC tends to be inflated in general. Duhamel/Radford got HIGHER PCS at 4CC than at Nationals. As did Lawrence/Sweigers.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Different panel of judges for pairs than either the men or the ladies.

Or dance for that matter.

The dance panel for example was actually judging a hair on the low side. D&W got the same score for their FD as the GPF-at the 4CC's version was significantly better, I thought. Granted, I didn't see either live, though.


Usually the scores go up as the year goes along. Some of that is the improvement of the skaters. However, quite often the PCS of the non favorites stays stuck in one place; sometimes shockingly uniform as if they judges got together and agreed on a number at the beginning of the season. If you've ever had a favorite team and tracked their PCS through the year, only to discover they got exactly the same number whether they skated their best or their worst, you'll know what I'm talking about. Consequently Rachael making a 10 point leap in her SP overall, with essentially the same tech content she's had all year is startling. EoE hasn't yet had a 3/3 in it, for example, but it does have more esthetically pleasing spins and the Ina Bauer and spread eagles that are much better than her attempts at spirals.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
I want to see my faves, Chan, Takahashi and Amodio skate clean and skate inspired. In which case, Chan should win and Takahashi takes second.

I'd like to see the judging and tech calls be fair.

I'd like to see the American team retain 3 spots, with Dornbush and Miner acquitting themselves well, just to put the whingers in their place.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
I want someone with a clean quad and no fall to win. Hopefully, Patrick Chan off the podium.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I want to see Ryan Bradley's beard.


RT @RyanSBradley: Decided to grow a playoff beard for Worlds with Patrick Chan. Not the best look
 

BackStage Barbie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
I want Patrick Chan to skate his Canadian Nationals program and wipe the floor with the competition.
I want Takahashi and Kozuka to skate perfect programs and round out the podium.
I want to see Ryan Bradley skate clean....I don't really care about the placement.
I want Verner to skate two clean programs.
I want Amodio to get scores he deserves rather than those sky high scores he has been getting for that piece of crap free skate he has.
I want Joubert to retire.
I want Gachinski to do something that makes me believe he is more than just a Plushenko clone.
 

BackStage Barbie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Gachinski would have to win to be a Plushenko clone. At Gachinski's age Plushenko won every competition he entered except worlds, which he won the season after.

I meant in terms of performance quality. It seems that Mishin is grooming him to be exactly like Plushenko (though is is not there yet) and I want him to find his own identity as a skater.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I want Patrick Chan to skate his Canadian Nationals program and wipe the floor with the competition.
I want Takahashi and Kozuka to skate perfect programs and round out the podium.
I want to see Ryan Bradley skate clean....I don't really care about the placement.
I want Verner to skate two clean programs.
I want Amodio to get scores he deserves rather than those sky high scores he has been getting for that piece of crap free skate he has.
I want Joubert to retire.
I want Gachinski to do something that makes me believe he is more than just a Plushenko clone.

Ditto.
 

Ravensque

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
I want Patrick Chan to skate his Canadian Nationals program and wipe the floor with the competition.
I want Takahashi and Kozuka to skate perfect programs and round out the podium.
I want to see Ryan Bradley skate clean....I don't really care about the placement.
I want Verner to skate two clean programs.
I want Amodio to get scores he deserves rather than those sky high scores he has been getting for that piece of crap free skate he has.
I want Joubert to retire.
I want Gachinski to do something that makes me believe he is more than just a Plushenko clone.

Me 2 :D..........Where did you learn to read minds? :)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
In no particular order, I would hope to see Joubert, Brezina and Nobunari on the podium.

also in no particular order, I expect to see Dai, Patrick, and Gachinsky on the podium.
 

treeloving

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Regarding to the medal, Oda on podium will be lovely. He is overdue. And I have admit that the fact that he is new dad also make me root for him.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
OTOH, I would like Patrick better if every time I've seen him, he wasn't skating through his music, something I really don't like. Perhaps his musicality improves by Canadian Nationals, but the only Canadian Nationals & 4CC's footage I've seen from him is badly synched streaming coverage-and everyone looks like they're skating through their music with that kind of media.

Here is HD clip of his LP, thanks to youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqukDncI51s&feature=related

Please tell us whether you see any improvement.
 
Top