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Thread: What do you want to see at Worlds for the Men?

  1. #76
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Alas!


    The soul of wit.

  2. #77
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Well, I agree with Mathman and Spun. It's not a matter of jazz or how old you can be when you choose jazz numbers. Rachael's LP does not sell. I'm not sure what's she's trying to be - cute? Sexy? Sensual? The program achieves neither. Her new SP on the other hand was one of the best moves a skater has done this season. I think Rachael has a sort of soulfulness and inner glow and just needs to let that shine through. She tries really hard and the acting stuff but it doesn't really bring out Rachael herself.

    About Patrick, I also don't see that he skates through his music. In terms of movement itself, he definitely seems to listen to it and hits his notes. The problem is that he is not a natural performer like Daisuke or Ryan so his expression sort of ranges from blank to a little forced. You can see him trying though. From the point of view of competition, I see that as a minor weakness and I agree with Skatefiguring that he if does what he did at nationals he'll be unbeatable at worlds.

    Also to be frank, I am not in love with Lori's programs for him. I do think the Phantom of the Opera one has some of those nice intricate moments and accents that Lori is so good at but it's not the most memorable choreo I've ever seen by a long shot. His SP was meant to get him to perform a bit more and while I think Patrick is rather good at some of the whimsy, the overall program gets on my nerves almost as much as Rachael's SP. A matter of taste, I suppose.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Good skate for Chan! However, The actual layout of the program to the music is done soley by the choreographer. The skater may change the steps because he is unable to manage them at that point in the music, and similarly the transitions into Jumps, In essence, the skater is just tweeking what the choreographer has given.

    Choreographers, imo, are the most underrated team members of a skater's competitive performance. What would Chan have looked like if Morosov, or TT had done the choreography. I contend that it was Lori that made him look good.
    This is such a strange way to demean Chan's accomplishment. By that logic, every competition is won by the choreographer not the skater including those which were won by the skaters that you love. Or does this logic apply only to Chan?
    Last edited by fscric; 02-26-2011 at 04:09 PM.

  4. #79
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    This is such a strange way to demean Chan's accomplishment. By that logic, every competition is won by the choreographer not the skater including those which were won by the skaters that you love. Or does this logic apply only to Chan?
    It applies to all, and I think you misunderstood what I am saying. Choreographers good or bad, do not get credit for their work. It has nothing to do with Chan. Chan and ALL others do not lay down the choreographic outline to the music - maybe Bradley does. dunno. Skaters tweek their programs to make them more comfortable.

    It's one of those PCs that shouldn't be there along with Skating Abiity. They belong in Performance. JMO.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    I agree with Skatefiguring that he if does what he did at nationals he'll be unbeatable at worlds.
    Actually I've never said that. Lots of people have though as it seems to be an obvious conclusion by consensus.

    I do project Chan's chances of winning the Worlds this year as very high. Yes the ice is slippery but ultimately it's the mental strength that determines how much of a skater's known abilities he will bring on that slippery ice on that day of competition. I see Chan and Takahashi as the two strongest competitors today who can bring their best or close to it when the chips are down, in which case Chan's TES will blow Takahashi away even if Dai performed as well as at last worlds, the difference being the quads - Chan's 3 4Ts vs Takahashi's one underotated and two footed 4F.

    Takahashi has the home advantage. He will have rabid crowd support and no jet lag. For the veteran the crowd's crazy love will likely be a tremendous energizer more than a pressure. He would love nothing more than winning the WC at home. He also usually peaks at season's end at the most important competition.

    Chan is on a great projectory of his own. Riding on the specular success at the Nationals, which was a culmination of studied hard work, he may still have to peak yet. He has overcome putting the quads in competitions, landing them beautifully and going on to the rest of the programs without adverse after effects. He has figured out the pre-skate mental preparation that works great for him. This season he has also learned how to travel so he is less likely to be dragged down like he used to when competing overseas. He skipped the 4CC so he could be better rested and prepared for Worlds, even though he spent much of recent weeks doing community works in Canada. He still has room to improve that he wants to work on, and we know what he wants he gets, as far as skating techniques are concerned.

    I look forward to the showdown. Some other skaters have the skills to surprise though they are not as reliable and driven as Chan and Takahashi at the biggest events. However, they are in the running and cannot be written out. I expect one Canadian and two Japanese at the podium, unless two of the top Men bombed, allowing a dark horse to rise up.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 02-26-2011 at 07:27 PM.

  6. #81
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Exciting news. Although I don't really think that program can be saved. I can't abide those cutesy jazzy numbers of Rachael's. Grow up, already, girlfriend.
    [INDENT]"Why do we have to grow up? I know more adults who have the children's approach to life. They're people who don't give a hang what the Joneses do. You see them at Disneyland every time you go there. They are not afraid to be delighted with simple pleasures, and they have a degree of contentment with what life has brought - sometimes it isn't much, either." - Walt Disney[/INDENT]

  7. #82
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Actually I've never said that. Lots of people have though as it seems to be an obvious conclusion by consensus.

    I do project Chan's chances of winning the Worlds this year as very high. Yes the ice is slippery but ultimately it's the mental strength that determines how much of a skater's known abilities he will bring on that slippery ice on that day of competition. I see Chan and Takahashi as the two strongest competitors today who can bring their best or close to it when the chips are down, in which case Chan's TES will blow Takahashi away even if Dai performed as well as at last worlds, the difference being the quads - Chan's 3 4Ts vs Takahashi's one underotated and two footed 4F.
    It's hard to imagine anyone beating Patrick's nationals skate. But that certainly is different from saying HE'S unbeatable. Patrick has his weaknesses. I don't forget that he doubled his axel and in the short at nationals. It's still his nemesis.

    If Patrick were a bit more reliable than I'd bet on him for sure but he's not Yuna - yet.

    His great advantage this year is that he has the most reliable quads of any of the men. I still can't get over that! His quads are so fast in the air.

    I still prefer Daisuke as a performer, and he has pretty awesome basic skating of his own. I really want one of the two of them to win. I doesn't really matter to me which one. I just want both to be magical.

  8. #83
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    We all have our favorites, and sometimes having a favorite can overwhelm the writer.

    I would have a favorite in Brezina because of his musicality but he's been injured so I can't push him this season.

    Patrick has a lot going for him. His feet with those long legs claw up the stroking which makes him look good, but his carriage if often uneven throughout the program. He makes me nervous. If he can stabilize his body and hit all the elements, he's definitely podium bound.

  9. #84
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    ^^^^
    We all have our favorites, and sometimes having a favorite can overwhelm the writer.
    What is your point? My point was pretty much the same as yours - that Patrick needs to deliver. I'm no Chanatic - I can actually think of quite a few men skaters over the years I'd rather rewatch. But is it really so bonkers to you that some of us see the two-time world silver medalist, current GPF champion and the man with the most consistent quads of the season as a potential world champion this year?

    It's fine that you see flaws in Patrick's skating - so do I. But even with those flaws, I've seen Patrick's best performance of the season and I have yet to see any other man match it. Not even close.

  10. #85
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    Sorry about that, but one skate does not do it for me. It does impress me though, and I want to view the skater with another competition. In my case it wil be the World Championship.

  11. #86
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    ^^^^
    Sorry about that, but one skate does not do it for me. It does impress me though, and I want to view the skater with another competition. In my case it wil be the World Championship.
    Oh, geez. Nobody is crowning him champion yet. OBVIOUSLY, what he and all the other skaters do at worlds is what matters. All I said is that he has the potential to become world champion and I don't don't see how that makes me some kind of befuddled writer blinded by having some favorites.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    ^^^^
    We all have our favorites, and sometimes having a favorite can overwhelm the writer.
    Layfan addressed that.

    In view of further exchanges while I was writing this, with interuptions, I'd add that what Layfan and myself have done here is just laying out the chances. Even my podium prediction was not specific on exact placements. I don't like to tempt the skating god whose sense of humour I am not wise to.

    I would have a favorite in Brezina because of his musicality but he's been injured so I can't push him this season.
    Brezina burst on the world scene with his jumps, not particularly noteworthy musicality. He has not followed up with performance reliability since while the super talented Kozuka and Oda have stepped up to be formidable competitors. Even if Brezina were healthy, he is still far from a safe bet for the podium, unless the stars align for a few top skaters to bomb and for him to bring the skate of his life.

    Patrick has a lot going for him. His feet with those long legs claw up the stroking which makes him look good, but his carriage if often uneven throughout the program. He makes me nervous.
    Patrick's stroking is indeed best in the world but his legs have sometimes been ridiculed as short and not what make him look good. His carriage is also one of the best, definitely an advantage over Oda, a major competitor.

    If he can stabilize his body and hit all the elements, he's definitely podium bound.
    He has hit all the elements more than anybody else and he has been on the podium in every competition he has taken part in this season.

    No I'm not overwhelmed by favoritism. I actually don't like to post my view of Chan's podium chances because these days it seems just another voice in the crowd whereas I orignally joined the forum to voice my contrary opinion about him at the height of harsh judgements due to his falls at the first 2 GP events, and when Chan bashers enjoyed their most justified glee. I've maintained the same reasoned perspectives and expectations which by now have played out, and which, with additional subsequent observations affording more current perspectives, are still in place to play out.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    ^^^^
    Sorry about that, but one skate does not do it for me. It does impress me though, and I want to view the skater with another competition. In my case it wil be the World Championship.
    Chan has so far put out two unmatched performaces this season. As we discuss chances based on everybody doing their best, nobody else's best has come near these performances. Could you enlighten us with a performance that has sold you on any other skater's more convincing and deserving chances of winning the WC?

    The skaters' skills and arsenals are known to all. The proverbial slippery ice will determine the actual outcome. To me, besides unexpected real life events, the slippery ice translates into the mental state of the competitors at the time they step on the ice. That's why I pick Takahashi and Chan to compare, as I believe they are the two with the greatest mental strength at the big events. As well, these two have the highest PCS, which are quite dependable from competition to competition.

    I'd add that Takahashi and Chan are also likely the most motivated to win this WC, Chan having won two consecutive Silver and Takahashi competing at home as the current World Champ, possibly considering retirement from competitions. I'm not sure about Oda with his 4 Silvers this season! Must be frustrating to him but he also has confidence issue to begin with.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 02-27-2011 at 03:06 PM.

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    I think many of the Chan haters are really insulting to Chan's skating. So you all expect him to fall 3-4 times eh? So all you remember is his falls and win? Well, maybe he won because he's the better skaters than those skaters didn't win? Really, GET OVER IT ALREADY! I guess haters are gonna hate.

  15. #90
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    I hope I'm gonna put this right, so that I will not sound sarcastic - coz I don't mean to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    That's why I pick Takahashi and Chan to compare, as I believe they are the two with the greatest mental strength at the big events.
    I am overwhelmed by ^ comment - with joy, of course. As someone who's been loving Takahashi's skate for some years and having witnessed his many implosions, I am not 100% trusting that he can deliver... very sad, but it is a habit of many years, perhaps?

    On a personal note, I am inclined to love so-called headcases, as their sensitivities and overloaded emotions sometimes create truly memorable performances, then make me care less about the scores and final placement. Talking about Daisuke, I prefer his Olympic free skate with a number of mistakes, some big and some minor, to the near-perfect skate at the Torino Worlds; the former was personally more moving, I thought I could see and feel whatever was going through his mind while skating. (Too much involvement emotionally, I know...)

    I do love to see this in all skaters ended up on the podium. Less mistakes - yes please, but also performances that touch people's hearts and souls - even more so.

    I am such a chicken that have been avoiding to make predictions - remembering about 08 Worlds, when Daisuke went in as a clear favourite after nailing 2 quads and everything else (except 3Lo stepping out) at 4CC, and ended up off the podium, and 09 Worlds, when Evan winning as the third man from the US...
    Last edited by mot; 02-28-2011 at 07:46 AM. Reason: deleted podium predictions as this is not a thread to do so.

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