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Thread: What do you want to see at Worlds for the Men?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sackie View Post
    I also hope that Bradley does not get held up simply because he is the American Champ. It certianly would not be the first time!
    Absurd statement. I dont even remember the last time a U.S Champion was "held up" at Worlds. If anyone was ever held it was Evan Lysacek in 2009 and 2010 who some thought was overmarked but he wasnt even the U.S Champion either year. U.S Champions since 1981:

    1981-1984: Scott Hamilton won Worlds each year and the 84 Olympics but deserved to win all. Well he only won in 84 due to figures but that was reality and Orser unfortunately sucked at them around them.

    1985-1988: U.S Champion Brian Boitano was not held up any year. The judges saw him as below Orser, Sabovcik, and Fadeev in 85-86 but he won the bronze in 85 when Sabovcik didnt skate well, and the gold in 86 in a shocker when all 3 of the others bombed. Orser and even Fadeev (who self destructed in every major event outside the 84 and 85 Worlds) were bigger favorites of the judges in 87 and 88, but Boitano cleanly outskated Orser at the 88 Games to give them little choice but to give him the gold (which they still nearly didnt), and he won the 88 Worlds since Orser messed up in both figures and the short program.

    89-90: U.S Champion Bowman was not held up in 89. He won silver at Worlds with solid performances, after both Petrenko and Fadeev bombed, and was beaten for the gold by Browning who skated more difficult programs. In 1990 U.S Champion Eldredge came only 7th after bombing his long program and was only ever in contention for bronze before that. In 1991 U.S Champion Eldredge won the bronze and clearly earned it. In 1992 U.S Champion Bowman came 4th at the Olympics and Worlds.

    1993-1994: U.S Champion Scott Davis wasnt even in the top 5 at any of the World or Olympic events these years.

    1995-1998: U.S Champion Eldredge in 95 lost a split decision for the World title to Elvis Stojko with an almost identical performance. In 1996 U.S Champion Galindo won the bronze at Worlds only after the two favorites Stojko and Urmanov bombed one of their programs eached. In 1997 U.S Champion Eldredge lost his World title to Stojko, in 1998 missed the podium at the Olympics and again failed to win Worlds.

    1999-2000: U.S Champion Weiss won the bronze at Worlds both years, clearly outskating a subpar Stojko in 99, and clearly outskating a disaesterous Plushenko in 2000.

    2001-2002: U.S Champion Goebel missed the podium at the 2001 Worlds, while U.S Champion Eldredge came 6th at the 2002 Games.

    2003: U.S Champion Weiss missed the podium at Worlds.

    2004-2006: U.S Champion Weir failed to medal at any of the Worlds or Olympics in this period including 2004 where he skated excellently.

    2007-2008: U.S Champion Lysacek came 5th at the 2007 Worlds and did not skate at the 2008 Worlds.

    2009-2010: Well Abbott has already been covered. The judges actually hammered him at the 2010 Worlds where he skated pretty well, and treated him like a chump.

  2. #122
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Any clout that the US had in the past, they seemed to have expended on having ladies held up, not men.

  3. #123
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    Yeah if the U.S is scored generously anywhere it is in the womens event. While they deserved most of their wins/medals the scores of Yamaguchi, Kwan, Kerrigan, Thomas, Sumners, Meissner and other then U.S #1s over the years seems to be on the generous side.

  4. #124
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    Patrick Chan and Ryan Bradley are both looking very good according to Kurt Browning's blog on Stars On Ice:

    The past few days off I went to Colorado Springs with a television crew to interview Patrick Chan for CBC. He looks great as did Ryan Bradley. Both skaters did clean run throughs of their programs and both did beautiful quad/triple combos. Wow
    Ryan has found Patrick very motivating since Patrick started training at Colorado Springs, as have Rachael Flatt and youngsters such as Joshua Farris. Ryan and Rachael have since gone on to win the US Natrional Championships. We want Patrick back!

    OK, OK, Colorado Springs is good for Patrick too - the coach, the friendships, and the altitude. It is now the Champ Camp for Singles just as Canton is for Ice Dance.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Jeremy was never "held up" for being the American champion. Why would Ryan be?
    Because some people wish that the title of U.S. Champion will help Bradley, who clearly would need all the help he can get to better his 18th place at Worlds last year.

  6. #126
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Really? I would think that not having a broken foot would help Ryan quite a bit more, and likewise, if his 3A and 4T are landed.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Really? I would think that not having a broken foot would help Ryan quite a bit more, and likewise, if his 3A and 4T are landed.
    Like instead of 18th, being 15th instead? Because that was the result when you couldn't blame it on broken foot.

  8. #128
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    To me Bradley is more of a wild card than Yuna is in the Ladies.

    He has had only one competition this season, the one that won him the National title and the ticket to Worlds, with the 5th highest total scores in all the Nationals. Yet his marks have been debated as highly inflated, with dubious tech calls on his high scoring jumps. OTOH, he demonstrated his ability to land those quads in the SP and Kurt Browning reported recently that he landed them well in clean run throughs of his program.

    So, if Bradley lands his quads, he may just have one of the highest TES among the Men. Then there is the matter of his PCS. It remains to be seen if his attempt of humour will go well with the international judges at the biggest event of the year. It seems unlikely for him to receive PCS as high as at the US Nationals. But these judges love Amodio's artistry and Joubert's transitions, so who knows? All in all, there is a big question mark on his TES and another one on his PCS.

    If things work out well for him, I can see him between 5th to 10th place. Or he may place not much higher than last year. That would be unfortunate for the US Men in general.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 03-09-2011 at 10:06 PM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    He has had only one competition this season, the one that won him the National title and the ticket to Worlds, with the 5th highest total scores in all the Nationals. Yet his marks have been debated as highly inflated, with dubious tech calls on his high scoring jumps. OTOH, he demonstrated his ability to land those quads in the SP and Kurt Browning reported recently that he landed them well in clean run throughs of his program.
    What happened at the U.S. Championship is history, it's not worth beating a dead horse. High value jumps like Quads come with a higher probability of failure, making them risky. It doesn't matter how consistent they are in practice, the risk level doesn't change. That's why when Mao Asada included two Triple Axels last season and including Triple Axel in the SP yet achieving a base value that is about equal or lower than Yu Na Kim, you know she was in trouble before she even took the ice. The Base Value analysis omits a key assessment, which is the overall risk evaluation of the program content. There is a disconnect between Base Value of a program vs. the actual amount of risk absorbed by the skater, with the latter defined as the likelihood or probability that a skater will fail to execute all the planned elements flawlessly. Skater A and B can both have more or less equal BV but one having a lower risk vs. the other. Having two Quads in the FS or doing it in the SP looks awesome on paper. But it doesn't matter who you are, whether you are Plushenko or king of Quads, there will be times you will be less than perfect if not failing miserably, such as a fall or worse, a pop. Bradley's relying on some very high risk elements as almost his sole backbone of his programs. He got nothing else to back it up should the high risk gambles fail to pay off. Using a stock market analogy, Investor A has both growth stocks and as well as dividend/income value stocks. Investor B only has high growth stocks. Bradley is like Investor B, should the market crash, he will have little back ups.

    To be clear, I personally find Ryan to be an affable person and very likeable skater. There are skaters I don't care for, Ryan is not one of them. I was startled by the poor performance he put up at U.S. Nationals and still won and I wasn't referring to the jumps or questionable calls. This is a guy who clearly didn't have enough training time and whose skating skills suffered as a result, admittedly so, yet... For his sake, I hope his jumps are there for him in Tokyo because don't expect him to pull off a Patrick Chan, there will be nothing to hold him even if judges wanted to should the jumps escape him in Tokyo.
    Last edited by wallylutz; 03-10-2011 at 12:29 AM.

  10. #130
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    Wally, I agree with your assessment, which is why I put a question mark for Bradley's TES and also for his PCS. Thus a wild card. He is far from Patrick Chan's league. Patrick's quads are additional arsenals to his very solid sets of elements and components and his quads are gorgeous when landed and at least rotated if he falls. However, if Ryan does land his quads and have a clean performance, he could place quite high. Even then, I still think a medal is out of the question. While Abbott's best could win a medal, Bradley's best is far from enough. Dornbush could outskate him at Worlds if he holds it together.

    eta: To use another investment/sport analogy, an investor may have a basket of 10 high risk stocks, banking on a couple of "home runs" to give him a high return in spite of some under-performances and total losses. Bradley depends on and needs his "home runs", without which he will be struck out.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 03-10-2011 at 01:17 AM.

  11. #131
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    In the battle of Bradley v. Chan, one should not forget the Japanese onslaught, nor the French brigade. Come to think of it there is a rising star in Dornbush that could end the battle. It's all about consistency throughout the programs. Which one will not Fall, not Stumble, not Slip, not bobble, and not Pop-up? and all of them are quite capable of making those faults. And all them will show a lack of skating skills.

    A World Champion should be perfect

  12. #132
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    My only hope for Worlds is that the US will hold on to three spots. I'm really hoping that Ryan will medal and Richard or Ross will place in the top ten, but I'm not holding my breath....

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    In the battle of Bradley v. Chan,
    There is no battle of Bradley v. Chan.


    one should not forget the Japanese onslaught,
    This is the season of the Japanese. The onslaught started right from the start. The question is which one(s) may not keep up the momentum by Worlds.

    nor the French brigade.
    The French brigade is not enough of a threat, with Joubert past his prime and fraught with inconsistency of his trump card, the quad, and Amodio rising but not in the league of the front runners.

    Come to think of it there is a rising star in Dornbush that could end the battle.
    End the battle? Dornbush?

    It's all about consistency throughout the programs. Which one will not Fall, not Stumble, not Slip, not bobble, and not Pop-up? and all of them are quite capable of making those faults.
    Yes, among the Japanese and Chan, the small and certainly major errors will determine the placements. But some small errors from them may not be a door open wide enough for the rest of the field. Somebody may sneak up to grab the bronze if there were melt downs at the top, but I don't see anybody outside these four to win the Gold.

    (I do hope they all "pop up" and do their multirotational jumps! Just don't pop those jumps!)

    And all them will show a lack of skating skills.
    All of them (top 4) will show fabulous skating skills.

    A World Champion should be perfect.
    Yeah, we all should be perfect.

    In Figure Skating, the one racking up the most points wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Kerryfan
    My only hope for Worlds is that the US will hold on to three spots. I'm really hoping that Ryan will medal and Richard or Ross will place in the top ten, but I'm not holding my breath....
    I know this is the Hope thread, but Ryan on the podium? Will not happen. Too many ahead of him vying for a spot there. I think there is definitely a possibility of a top ten spot for one of the US Men.

  14. #134
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    ^^^
    Opinions, opinions, opinions. We all have them. Do we talk about them after a competition, or do we suck up our wrong opinions and hide them? There's a whole season to make more wrong opinions right after this coming Worlds.

    There have been clean programs that won a Worlds - even Olympics. What is wrong with clean programs?

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Yeah, we all should be perfect.

    In Figure Skating, the one racking up the most points wins.
    I think it should be like those big prizes for playing the piano. If everyone screws up, "no prize will be awarded this year."

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