Skating Skills, not Skating Abilities, are concerned with blades moving on the ice, not jumping off it. Taking out the jumps, can anybody outside Dance outskate Chan? And, if Chan had the same jump content as the others, he wouldn't have any fall. Would you consider he had better Skating Skills then? Bottom line, Skating Skills are not measured by jumps or falls.
I could not disagree more, skating skills is how skilled you are at skating. That includes the second the skater first moves until the skater ends. It includes everything you said as well as jumps. If if didn't there would only be ice dancing and a seperate jumping competition. If Patrick Chan fell 4 times in one competition he obviously didn't have fabulous skiting skills at that particular competition and it should have been reflected in the skating skills part of the PCS. Same for any skater at any competition.
A few posts above, BurntBread has already brought over the defination of Skating Skills as spelled out by ISU and how SS are judged. Why argue with me?
In COP system, each element and component is judged separately. A fall incurs its hefty penalties. Do you think a skater's marks for his spins should be deducted if he has a fall? Skating Skills is a separatly judged component, just as a spin is.
SS is worth less than 10% of the total score and on its own doesn't win a competition. Point differnces among top skaters are usually less than one, factored into less than 2 points in LP. In SC, Chan's SS was 0.18 point over Oda's in the SP and, in the LP where they each had a fall, Chan's SS is 0.58 X 2 = 1.16 over Oda's. The total diference is 1.34 for which Chan has been bashed over for months and likely forever.
I think many people confuse the "Skating" part of Skating Skills as the performance of an entire skating program, as in how a pregram is "skated". Therefore, falls means bad skating, and bad Skating Skills. But it ain't so in scoring a competitive program, or else someone skating an easy program will easily win over a skater with difficult jump content.
Any way, why are you dwelling on one competition from early in the season? Do you still consider Patrick Chan as having poor skating skills? Should PCS be increased proportionately with jump success?
Eta. Good illustration, IPogue! Nothing like facts to spoil myths.
A fall is a fall no matter on what element it happens, a spin, a man throwing his partner or a jump; as it should. I am not dwelling on ONE competition or ONE skater I said ANY SKATER, ANY COMPETITION. Skating skills is assessed on how well a skater skates, if they spend part of the time on their butt, knee, thigh, hands or any other part of their body expect their blade, no, they do not have good Skating Skills. I couldn't care less if their are considered the best skater to ever take the ice, every skater has a bad skate and they deserve to be marked down for it. No matter if you are Davis/White, Chan or Savchenko/Szolkowy
Speaking of Savchenko/Szolkowy, they received an 8.79 in SS even though she stumbled out of a SBS, yes they got no credit for it but she stood there for 15 seconds like a deer in headlights. Good skating skills? Also at the GPF they received 8.57 and they had no mistakes so evidently you can stand around for at least 15 seconds of a program and the judges consider that good skating skills, even though you are nor even skating . I guess more skaters should do that
Super layout of judging Falls. There are many discrepancies occurring with a Fall, aside from the obvious Tech, the Program Components get hit hard, particularly Skating Skills and Performance.PCS for Skating Skills
Nobunari Oda
Skate America LP (one fall): 8.29
Skate Canada LP (one fall): 7.96
Grand Prix Final LP (two falls): 8.14
Daisuke Takahashi
NHK LP (no falls): 8.39
Skate America LP (one fall): 8.46
Grand Prix Final LP (two falls): 8.32
Four Continents LP (one fall): 8.29
Jeremy Abbott
NHK LP (no falls): 7.79
CoR LP (two falls): 7.89
Denis Ten
NHK LP (three falls): 6.25
Skate America LP (five falls): 6.43
I could go look up more, but I think that the judges are clearly not incorporating falls on elements in PCS in Skating Skills.
The throught of changing an official nomenclature puts fear into the conservative mind.If the ISU would rename the Skating Skills component to "stroking and edgework between elements." then there would be no need to argue about what the words "skating skills" ought to embrace.
You at least acknowledge it finally, but the fear of changing a regulation still frightens you to think a minus one (-1) deduction does not cover all the discrepancies of what a Fall causes.Falls do, however, affect choreography, interpretation and performance/execution, IMO. As SkateFiguring mentions, some falls have a greater negative impact on performance than others.
Joesitz, you have commented on the Quad list with similar rant but you fail to see that the list illustrates how much the penalty can be for a fall and other faults on a jump. Some of the quads earn just 2.00 point before -1 deduction, ending up 1 point total on the element for the program, less then most double jump's BV. And such reults are from the higest scoring jump, namely the quads. The consequences can be even more severe for lesser jumps.
By mousepotato's reasoning, doing lesser jumps makes a better skater, and means s/he has better skating skills. Well, scoring Skating Skill is easy peacy then. Skating competitions would be so pretty.
My rant on the CoP is piece meal. I'm totally and unequivocably against Partial Credit. That's how tough I am on the 'pretty' sport. Either a skater executes an element by definition, or he gets NO base value credit. Falls are not good Skating Skills. Tell me they are and prove it. I don't want to hear what the regulations say. I know what they say. A Fall with all its ensuing errors are bundled up into a -1 deduction to include the Tech as well as the PCs. Imaginary Pogue showed in her List that Falls do not affect the PCs. I presume you are ok with that.Joesitz, you have commented on the Quad list with similar rant but you fail to see that the list illustrates how much the penalty can be for a fall and other faults on a jump. Some of the quads earn just 2.00 point before -1 deduction, ending up 1 point total on the element for the program, less then most double jump's BV. And such reults are from the higest scoring jump, namely the quads. The consequences can be even more severe for lesser jumps.