If you judge in the CoP, a Fall shows bad skating skills, and it disrupts the program. The minus one penalty is not enough to cover sloppy skating. It's not that the skater Falls all the time, it's judging the skater on what he does in competition. (Not what he can do last week.)
• Balance and rhythmic knee
action and precision of foot
• Flow and effortless glide
• Cleanness and sureness of deep
edges, steps and turns
• Power/energy and acceleration
• Mastery of multi directional
• Mastery of one foot skating
• Pair Skating and Ice Dancing –
equal mastery of technique by
both partners shown in unison
• Ice Dancing – compulsory dance
– ice coverage
^True! How could I forget. A couple of saved landings but no falls and overall one of Sasha's best performances. Wasn't her year internationally, though.
Men: Chan, Takahashi, Kozuka
Ladies: Kim, Ando, Asada
Pairs: Kavaguti/Smirnov, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Pang/Tong
Dance: Davis/White, Virtue/Moir, Pechalat/Bourzat
PCS for Skating Skills
Skate America LP (one fall): 8.29
Skate Canada LP (one fall): 7.96
Grand Prix Final LP (two falls): 8.14
NHK LP (no falls): 8.39
Skate America LP (one fall): 8.46
Grand Prix Final LP (two falls): 8.32
Four Continents LP (one fall): 8.29
NHK LP (no falls): 7.79
CoR LP (two falls): 7.89
NHK LP (three falls): 6.25
Skate America LP (five falls): 6.43
I could go look up more, but I think that the judges are clearly not incorporating falls on elements in PCS in Skating Skills.
In COP system, each element and component is judged separately. A fall incurs its hefty penalties. Do you think a skater's marks for his spins should be deducted if he has a fall from a jump? Skating Skills is a separatly judged component, just as a spin is.
SS is worth about 10% of the total score and on its own doesn't win a competition. Point differnces among top skaters are usually less than one, factored into less than 2 points in LP. In SC, Chan's SS was 0.18 point over Oda's in the SP and, in the LP where they each had a fall, Chan's SS is 0.58 X 2 = 1.16 over Oda's. The total diference is 1.34 for which Chan has been bashed over for months and likely forever.
I think many people confuse the "Skating" part of Skating Skills as the performance of an entire skating program, as in how a pregram is "skated". Therefore, falls means bad skating, and bad Skating Skills. But it ain't so in scoring a competitive program, or else someone skating an easy program will easily win over a skater with difficult jump content.
Any way, why are you dwelling on one competition from early in the season? Do you still consider Patrick Chan as having poor skating skills? Should PCS be increased proportionately with jump success?
Eta. Good illustration, IPogue! Nothing like facts to spoil myths.
Last edited by Violet Bliss; 02-28-2011 at 12:34 AM.
Speaking of Savchenko/Szolkowy, they received an 8.79 in SS even though she stumbled out of a SBS, yes they got no credit for it but she stood there for 15 seconds like a deer in headlights. Good skating skills? Also at the GPF they received 8.57 and they had no mistakes so evidently you can stand around for at least 15 seconds of a program and the judges consider that good skating skills, even though you are nor even skating . I guess more skaters should do that
Not listed by IPogue, Chan's PCS, however, do seem to reflect his numbers of falls in his LP:
81.30 COR (3 falls)
84.14 SC (1 fall)
87.22 GPF (no fall)
In contrast to other skaters, Chan is the exception whose PCS suffer from his falls.
Last edited by Violet Bliss; 02-28-2011 at 01:26 AM.
mousepotato, I'm sorrry that a point I was making in my previous post was rather easy to interpret differently from intended, which I have gone back to clarify before your response. My question about whether a spin should be penalized when a skater had fallen pertained to a fall from a jump, a seperate element, not a fall from the spin itself. The point is about seperate judging and assassment of each element or component of the program performed.
mousepotatot, where should they marked down? In which bullet? Because if it affects none of the bullets posted, then what you are suggesting is that judges make up new rules to follow while judging.
I believe the CoP is there to protect skaters, and Falls are a wrist slap. They have bundled up all the discrepancies both Tech and PC into a minus one (-1) deduction, and ignored the affect Falls have on the Program. And for Tech, there is more credit if a skater Falls, than if he does not Fall on an underrotation. So much for a sloppy sport, imo.