Winning Ways | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Winning Ways

mot

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
It's not "that he had practised enough and was thus prepared" that ensures "he could do it whatever happens". It is the "knowing" that could allow him to believe he could. And when he believes he could, he can.

His analysis was correct that the cause of his implosion was nervousness (and shame and guilt). Note the insufficient training itself is not the direct cause. To prevent such nervousness in a way that is congruent with his beliefs, he had to put in the work of physical practice and training. With the lesson learned and if he keeps to it, such implosion will not happen again. From a mental perspective, he could have adjusted his mind over the situation, using every happening to stay positive instead of building negative thoughts. He could have also done a lot of mental practice of his skating when physically limited. There have been experiments conducted that show mental practice is almost, if not equally, as effective as physical practice.

I wonder if another skater who relies on 'knowing one has done enough' to gain confidence is Mao. Her crazy hard work is well known, and I read her new coach, Nobuo Sato, told her to change her practice regime to be more paced and focused, rather than just spending long hours on ice.

But is it really the case for those two skaters? I am sure there are many others, all over the world, who feel the same. Not only knowing their own technical / physical / mental shortcomings, but also lacking in confidence because of that awareness to start with, drives people to train hard to over come their inferiority complex, and harvest confidence and self-belief through knowing how hard they worked - it seems all natural and logical to me.


One of the reasons why I am fascinated by figure skating (and come to love and root for headcases) is that it is a sport where a competitor's psychological journey is somewhat visible in their performance. You can read their mind and soul in their performance as if it was an open book, and follow their personal journey through their career. Also as I stated elsewhere before, I have a feeling that such (somehow painful) sensitivity can give a skater an ability to produce a performance full of nuances and emotionally engaging details and power. Mind you, having emotionally invested in headcases, my beloved Daisuke, Tomas, Jeremy, Alissa, Carolina, etc, my life must have been shortened by at least three years by now. :laugh:

I rolled my eye at Morozov's interview, especially at his basically calling the Japanese men ugly. What were the reactions to his comments in Japan? Maybe it didn't get any press because it was done in Russia?

I am not sure whether that particular interview was publicised in Japan, but he did give an interview to Japanese press after 09 GPF, really attacking Daisuke and Mao's teams, saying they did not know what they were doing. I guess, when reading this, most Japanese fans just shrugged their shoulders and went 'here we go, that's Morozov again...' Well, I did anyway.
 
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Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
The olden days may not be that old since jumps, especially triples, weren't even done in the real olden days.

Very good point. Women didn't even start doing the triple lutz regularly until the past few decades.

It might be "pride" but it might just be the way to score (invisible) points under 6.0. Doing all jumps impressed the judges who then placed you higher.

Back in the 6.0 days and after the Zayak rule (which came about before women even regularly did all 5 triples anyway), knowing and doing all 5 triples was the most reliable way of doing a 7 triple program (women had 8 jumping passes back then, and one must be an axel). It wasn't so much invisible as just straight up counting the number of triples a skater did. Not that different from what we have now.

It worked then but not under the current CoP system where every element is analysed and scored accordingly. Naturatlly the strategy becomes to maximize points with the highest scoring jumps and combinations you can do.

It's not that everything is counted and scored now, it is how they're counted and how they're scored. If some of the COP rules changed, doing all 5 triples could absolutely be all the rage again (for instance if women were only allowed 6 jumping passes, one jump must be an axel, and no jump takeoff can be repeated). Under the current COP, there is no great advantage to doing all 5 triples for most female skaters given the combinations they're capable of (the only exception I can think of is Yuna Kim, whose consistency is the 3lutz/3toe and the 2axel/3toe along with all the limits the COP places on jumps means that she would gain considerable points from doing all 5 triples in the FS), and a lot of risk in forcing it.

Evolution is often misconstrued as survival of the fittest but it's really survival (and thriving) of the most adaptable. Adapt and win. Competitive skaters know this well, or should.

That is a very important point. Being able to do 5 triples doesn't make one the strongest skater under the current system, not remotely. And that's not inherently wrong.

There are so many truly great female skaters who just couldn't cut it at one type of triple or another. Kristi Yamaguchi couldn't do the triple sal 'cause of her pairs experience (not sure how that worked but I believe it in her case). Yuna couldn't 3loop due to injuries. They are still incredibly strong skaters. If we insist on a system skewed towards 5-triple ladies skater, they may not have been as successful.

If we go with the evolution motif, the system is also deliberately and consciously changed to shape the evolution of its inhabitants. When we consider change to the current system, we should try to map it to the past as well to see what results that would get us. If it isn't the results most of us want, then those systemic changes aren't good.

Voila, Rachael Flatt :biggrin:

Thanks, but no thanks :sheesh:

Given the post you were responding to, I am construing that you meant that the COP doesn't reward skaters for doing all 5 triples, but instead encourages adaptability, and so we wind up with a skater like Rachael Flatt? If that's what you meant...

Well Rachael Flatt can do all 5 triples without any edge calls even though that doesn't give her any particularly huge advantage under the COP. Nor is she particularly adaptable to many of the COP's demands. Her lack of flexibility really holds her back in spin levels. Her lack of speed and power holds her back in the PCS. Despite all that, she has managed to be very successful, but by no means is she the ultimate product of the COP given that she has strengths it doesn't reward and weaknesses it picks on.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The olden days may not be that old since jumps, especially triples, weren't even done in the real olden days.

By "ah, back in the good old days," I mean way back when Michelle was skating. :) By "amazing and wonderful skaters with all five triples" I meant, like Michelle.

By "skaters with all six triples, incl;uding the triple Axel," I meant, like Ludmila Nelidina. :love: They just don't make skaters like that any more. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsUAJLe16RM

(I saw this live. :clap: Ignore Peggy's and Dick's commentary on the performance. :p ) )
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
By "ah, back in the good old days," I mean way back when Michelle was skating. :) By "amazing and wonderful skaters with all five triples" I meant, like Michelle.

By "skaters with all six triples, incl;uding the triple Axel," I meant, like Ludmila Nelidina. :love: They just don't make skaters like that any more. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsUAJLe16RM

(I saw this live. :clap: Ignore Peggy's and Dick's commentary on the performance. :p ) )
Wow! whatever happended to Nelidina? and she had a text book Lutz with counter rotation as well. No attempts nonsense. She went for the real thing. How many skaters today have a text book Lutz?
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I wonder if another skater who relies on 'knowing one has done enough' to gain confidence is Mao. Her crazy hard work is well known, and I read her new coach, Nobuo Sato, told her to change her practice regime to be more paced and focused, rather than just spending long hours on ice.

But is it really the case for those two skaters? I am sure there are many others, all over the world, who feel the same. Not only knowing their own technical / physical / mental shortcomings, but also lacking in confidence because of that awareness to start with, drives people to train hard to over come their inferiority complex, and harvest confidence and self-belief through knowing how hard they worked - it seems all natural and logical to me.

I think there are two reasons for reliance on hard work for success in various areas of one's life:

1. The concept that hard work will bring success, e.g. money or winning competitions, has been drilled into almost everybody's head by people with great influences, such as parents, teachers, bosses, etc.

2. Hard work is something a person, e.g. an athlete, has control over. While so many conditions for winning are mostly out of a skater's control, body types, natural talents, family, financial resourses, decisions by authorities such as judges, governing federation, etc., a skater can always work hard by his/her own decision and resolve.

Never mind hard work, at least on its own, is not the deciding factor in success. Witness most people who work hard are struggling to get by, and the hardest working people in the world are the poorest. They are called slaves. Is is possible for most people to work twice as hard to make twice the money? What about those who make ten times more than you? Or a thousand times more? They certainly can't and don't work ten times or a thousand times harder. Most beliefs are myths but as long as people hold these beliefs, they will not, and will refuse to, see facts.

But skaters can use the belief to build confidence and to calm their nerves at competitions. It's one thing that is up to them, that they can control, so their dedication, determination, and ambition can be demonstrated by training hard, hopefully giving them a leg up on their rivals. Of course training and practice are necessary and important, but one can overtrain. It's like driving, difficult for beginners, demanding full attention on driving skills. But such skills become natural and automatic with practice, but attention is still very important, on the road and on the environment, ensuring timely and proper reactions. But someone who has driven for too long becomes a dangerous driver, due to fatigue and inability to focus. Same consequences apply to an overtrained athlete.

I suspect the more a skater feels limited in contol of other factors, the more powerless and the fewer options they perceived as available, the more they may tend to overtrain. Maybe they should expand their power, explore other options of improving their skills and winning chances, and learn to boost their confidence with other means. Even if they need to train hard to compensate for real or perceived inadequacies, they can find ways to train smarter and effectively. A holistic approach can certainly lessen the over reliance on training.

One of the reasons why I am fascinated by figure skating (and come to love and root for headcases) is that it is a sport where a competitor's psychological journey is somewhat visible in their performance. You can read their mind and soul in their performance as if it was an open book, and follow their personal journey through their career. Also as I stated elsewhere before, I have a feeling that such (somehow painful) sensitivity can give a skater an ability to produce a performance full of nuances and emotionally engaging details and power. Mind you, having emotionally invested in headcases, my beloved Daisuke, Tomas, Jeremy, Alissa, Carolina, etc, my life must have been shortened by at least three years by now. :laugh:

I love skating for its combination of athletism and the artistry. It's human species at its most beautiful.

As I became more and more interested in human mind and spirituality, skaters become even more fascinating. Such adorable subjects to study! (Many subjects in this world can be depressing to know and to be near.)
 
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