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Thread: Pairs Free Skate

  1. #31
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    yqs100, what excellent performances? Sui/Han are just as inconsistent as the other pairs. They've had a fall or two + other mistakes in almost every competition this season, so why would they get a "reputation bonus"?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by yqs100 View Post
    Reply to all people who concern on S/H's PCS


    Dont know how long you have been watching FS, for what I understand, PCS doesnt really reflect the performance in one competition, it's more like an overview of the whole season.

    How stable and aggressive you are can really affect the PCS. If you do well in every competition, of cuz the PCS will build up and become big..

    If you only do well in certain competitions, of cuz it wont be as good as above one.


    So I think S/H's PCS over T/T and S'K is reasonable,,,, its a bonus for the excellence performance throughout the entire season.


    Wel done, S/H!!! and congrats
    1. They're lucky they didn't get a reputation downgrade due the age controversy.

    2. This isn't the first competition where their PCS get overscored. So they've essentially been getting the reputation bonus you speak of as soon as they stepped out onto the ice.

    3. Lets be clear: if they were getting a reputation bonus, then they didn't earn the score they received. Period. End of story. PCS are "Program Component Scores" - they are to reflect the program, skate and skater on the ice in those four minutes (or whatever).

    4. Their program(s) is (are) COP to the max. They've got a huge base value because of their backloaded elements as well as the high risk elements they do (throw quad). As such, their technical infelicities (that double axel, the constant two footing, the poor air position, the tiny jumps) get absorbed into base value (and what they do well: the throws like the 3F and the twist, get huge GOES.) I'm fine with that. But I do believe that on individual components (actually, all but transitions), they're behind Takahashi/Tran and Stoblova/Klimov. Skating Skills, interpretation and choreography is something they lack. Their perform with energy and enthusiasm and do well to mask, but their success

    5. Stoblova said they didn't have any special "idols." I don't know how that makes them fake, even if you ignore the obvious language issues they would have. Don't need to criticize one to praise the other.

  3. #33
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    Agree with Pogue on all points 1-5. S/H have been this season's "judges' pets" but that rarely lasts forever, and sooner rather than later the cuteness factor will wear thin.

  4. #34
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    I totally agree with Pogue, as well. Reputation points are exactly how PCS shouldn't be used. Sui/Han have got a giant base value, but they're often sloppy, their lines are poor and do not match and Sui, in particular, have weak skating skills. Takahashi/Tran and Stolbova/Klimov don't have as much hype or as high of a base value, they skate circles around Sui/Han in terms of unison, maturity and polish. Last year, you could have made an argument about them having weaker transitions, but this year, both these teams have great programs with difficult transitions, so Sui/Han don't have an advantage there, either. The PCS don't reflect what happened on the ice. I really think Stolbova/Klimov deserved the title, or at the very least, to win the LP.

    I found Sui/Han really impressive when they first came out but the cutesy programs are getting really old, the skating skills haven't improved at all since last year and the fact that they're likely too old/young to have won these titles really doesn't endear them any to me.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I totally agree with Pogue, as well. Reputation points are exactly how PCS shouldn't be used. Sui/Han have got a giant base value, but they're often sloppy, their lines are poor and do not match and Sui, in particular, have weak skating skills. Takahashi/Tran and Stolbova/Klimov don't have as much hype or as high of a base value, they skate circles around Sui/Han in terms of unison, maturity and polish. Last year, you could have made an argument about them having weaker transitions, but this year, both these teams have great programs with difficult transitions, so Sui/Han don't have an advantage there, either. The PCS don't reflect what happened on the ice. I really think Stolbova/Klimov deserved the title, or at the very least, to win the LP.

    I found Sui/Han really impressive when they first came out but the cutesy programs are getting really old, the skating skills haven't improved at all since last year and the fact that they're likely too old/young to have won these titles really doesn't endear them any to me.

    How long have you been watching them? Last year was their junior international competition debut, this year is their senior competition debut, compared to last year, their skating skill has improved, also the spin is much better this year..

    Dont ignore skater's effort just because you prefer the other pairs, ok?

    and i did not say they skated perfect without any mistakes, of cuz there were mistakes, but relatively they are more stable and aggressive than the other pairs, they never miss the podium in the competitions they attended this season,,,no matter its junior or senior...

    so its reasonable,,, e.g. last year worlds' even though SS skated better than PT in the FP, but the PCS is still not as good as PT's...thats because PT's excellent performance throughout the whole season last year...

    Worlds is like a final exam, it counts the whole details in the entire season,, not just one competition if they are in the same level

  6. #36
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    Plus, SH doesnt have a "premium" nationality,,, you don't have to put them in the "judge's pet" basket... thank you

    and the age issue, ImaginaryPogue, ISU is still investigating,,, so please dont make a statement before the result comes out, otherwise its called libel. thank you

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by yqs100 View Post
    Worlds is like a final exam, it counts the whole details in the entire season,, not just one competition if they are in the same level
    No, it's really not. You have the wrong idea about components are being used. Like Pogue said, if it's being used as reputation points, then they don't deserve it. Because a skater has medaled at all competitions doesn't mean they should be held up over other teams when they don't skate as well. That's ridiculous and one of the complains people often have about PCS scores.

    I'll stick with S/H and ignore the P/T vs S/S comment, because that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. And yes, I saw them last year. No, I do not think their skating skills have shown improvement.

    How is China NOT a "premium nationality", as you put it, in pairs?

  8. #38
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    "Worlds is like a final exam, it counts the whole details in the entire season,, not just one competition if they are in the same level[/QUOTE]"

    Let's assume S/H have a disastrous next season, barely make the world team,(I don't wish them that,for the record) but at their last competition, worlds, they have the skate of their life. Would you still think it's reasonable your ideea "worlds is like a final exam"? This means they will be held down, right? Try to be a little objective, will you?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by yqs100 View Post
    Plus, SH doesnt have a "premium" nationality,,, you don't have to put them in the "judge's pet" basket... thank you

    and the age issue, ImaginaryPogue, ISU is still investigating,,, so please dont make a statement before the result comes out, otherwise its called libel. thank you
    No, it really isn't called libel. I stated that there was an age controversy, implied that Sui/Han were part of it (as they were). Neither of those comments were false and/or malicious. Ergo, not libel. Thank you.

    The ISU has accepted the explanation of the Chinese federation that those ages on the website were all keyed in error, so there is no continuing investigation.

    But you're missing the point. If, as you argue, worlds is a final exam, then you should follow through on that statement. If, during the year, there comes a rumour that I'm cheating that is plausible and the teachers (judges) believe, but currently there is no actual proof (and no one believes there will ever be, or certainly not within the time period that matters), I would fully expect the teachers (judges) to come down a little harder. It's not fair, because as there is no evidence, I should be presumed innocent (and Sui/Han clearly were presumed innocent).

    You're right, they got bonus points for doing well on the senior circuit. They didn't deserved their GPF medal, nor the scores they earned, but hey - you seem to think that's okay. Because they earned them elsewhere.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by yqs100 View Post
    Plus, SH doesnt have a "premium" nationality,,, you don't have to put them in the "judge's pet" basket... thank you
    Not any more. China has political power in ISU and the $.

    Let's not worry about S/H's skating. Let them be what they are and get their high scores.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsfan View Post
    Not any more. China has political power in ISU and the $.

    Let's not worry about S/H's skating. Let them be what they are and get their high scores.
    china has political power in isu... lol,,,, everyone knows who are the real power man..

    if china has that strong power,,, maybe s/z will not be the first olympic champions for their country...or they didnt have to wait till 2010....

  12. #42
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    S/Z deserved no more than bronze in 2002 and 2006. They got more inflatted scores than others.

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