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Thread: Ladies SP-Courtney Hicks up first

  1. #166
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    I never said Sasha's "balletic style" set her apart. You referenced that
    I did indeed. And I meant it as both a compliment and as what I think is an accurate and succinct description of what sets Sasha apart. I can't think of any other word that would comprise good toe point, extension, perfectly held arms like you're holding a beach ball (as Dick Button used to say) and so on that encompasses that style.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    IBut whether you agree or not, I still have never seen a skater with Sasha's beautiful positions and extensions. Some credit this to her gymnastics background along with her Dance training.
    Sasha is the best ever at that style on ice. The reason why I credit it more to ballet than gymnastics is because I've seen plenty of gymnasts, hugely successful ones, who doesn't come close to Sasha's style. Whereas I see a lot more ballet dancers who are comparable to Sasha (though of course those dancers couldn't do it on ice).

    Where I disagree is that Sasha is the most influential skater of the last decade. Like I said, the balletic style of emphasizing all the things Sasha was so good at existed before and would've continued to exist even without Sasha. For instance, look at the long line of Russian pair skaters, they were all so very very precisely balletic. Sure you can say current Russian pair skater Vera Bazarova has a style similar to Sasha's, but it's more accurate and probable that it came from Russian pairs tradition of drawing from ballet.

    Another important thing to look at is whether this style was particularly rewarded under the COP (and whatever the COP rewards does become the most influential thing in skating now). I would have to say no. Unpointed feet, rounded backs and sloppy extensions are a dime a dozen in skaters that nevertheless do great under the COP. If the COP doesn't pick on it most skaters will focus their energies elsewhere. When Sasha competed under the COP her PCS was sometimes hurt by her lack of speed and power, which is the thing the COP watches out for.

    What the COP does reward is flexibility when it comes to spins (only way to get all those levels). This is one area where Sasha's influence is apparent. The i-spin is pretty much done by all ladies skaters.

    On the other hand, the COP didn't even look for much flexibility for spirals back when those things had levels, so Sasha's exceptional extension and positions on the spirals are wasted on it.

    When I look at the state of ladies skating now, I don't see a lot of Sasha wannabes, and I don't foresee a lot of them with the COP set up the way it is.

  2. #167
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    Thanks, was hoping you could come up with something more than common knowledge.

    I never said Sasha's "balletic style" set her apart. You referenced that

    But whether you agree or not, I still have never seen a skater with Sasha's beautiful positions and extensions. Some credit this to her gymnastics background along with her Dance training.

    For me, "attitude" was a big part of Sasha's considerable package.
    Even at 14 she already had "it".
    Sasha probably took extension and stretch to a new height in singles skating, but she did not "bring in the balletic style". Being balletic is not just about having good extension and stretch, it's also about the way one moves and a certain carriage one has. I agree with another poster who said Sasha was more gymnastic-like than ballet-like. Oksana Baiul had more of truly balletic style.
    Last edited by shine; 03-04-2011 at 05:35 PM.

  3. #168
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Sasha probably took extension and stretch to a new height in singles skating, but she did not "bring in the balletic style". Being balletic is not just about having good extension and stretch, it's also about the one moves and a certain carriage one has. I agree with another poster who said Sasha was more gymnastic-like than ballet-like. Oksana Baiul had more of truly balletic style.
    You are prpbably right, but when we talk about carriage and posture, again, I think Sasha had few equals. Her unrivaled extensions coming from her beautiful carriage is part of what had Button raving about her from the time she came on the scene. And who else pointed their toes on jumps the way Sasha did?

    All things considered Sasha was exquisite and musically speaking showed more versatilty than Irina or Michelle who avoided syncopated music like the plague. Sasha could skate to anything . Too bad she fell down so often

  4. #169
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    Aww no Gao.

    Great skating from all that I watch. Didn't watch Agnes. I would love to see Li and Gao.
    Christina Gao
    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ4MjY5OTM2.html
    Zijun Li
    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ4MjE3ODc2.html

  5. #170
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I saw Elisaveta and Adelina so far and both were superb,I m happy Elisaveta had a clean sp at laaaast and Adelina was fantastic, I would put Tuktamisheva first but their marks were close so it s ok.
    have to see the rest now


  6. #171
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    All things considered Sasha was exquisite and musically speaking showed more versatilty than Irina or Michelle who avoided syncopated music like the plague. Sasha could skate to anything . Too bad she fell down so often
    I am not sure what you mean by "syncopated music". But whether you liked her choreographyor not, Kwan probably has had some of the most versatile music choices of any female skater. Some of her best programs in my opinion like Dream of Desdamona, D'Ariane, The Red Violin had such a wide range of musical dynamics. It's true that Kwan never did any really "dancy" program but as far as versatility goes, I think Cohen is the one who was much more limited to one kind of style - she needed music choices that could show case her bravura style, which were usually music that had a strong, catchy character, like Carmen, Dark Eyes, Malaguena, etc.

    And by the way, is this considered "syncopated music" by you?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG1VhaDnUhQ
    Last edited by shine; 03-04-2011 at 05:46 PM.

  7. #172
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    I am not sure what you mean by "syncopated music". But whether you liked her And by the way, is this considered "syncopated music" by you?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG1VhaDnUhQ
    Not really and it is not rhythmically challenging.

  8. #173
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    Edited....I'm really liking Adelina. I'm just keeping my fingers cross that she will stave off the puberty monster. I'm also liking the Japanese girls.
    Last edited by lavender; 03-04-2011 at 06:29 PM.

  9. #174
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Sasha probably took extension and stretch to a new height in singles skating, but she did not "bring in the balletic style". Being balletic is not just about having good extension and stretch, it's also about the way one moves and a certain carriage one has. I agree with another poster who said Sasha was more gymnastic-like than ballet-like. Oksana Baiul h
    I'mma let you finish but Sasha Cohen had one of the best balletic styles of all time.

    Really, while I would say Oksana is a stronger figure skater (she had exceptional power and speed and flow and jump height) than Sasha, in the many qualities that ballet emphasizes, Sasha has it all over Oksana. If you don't think extension and stretch are a big deal in ballet, you just haven't been beaten by a Russian ballet instructor for every unstretched toe. I would also say that Oksana is a better performer than Sasha, Oksana had the very natural ability to project and charm. This is an important quality in a dancer, but that applies to any form of dance including figure skating, not just ballet. On the other hand, gymnastics emphasizes power, rotation, balance, some of which Sasha is unexceptional at. So I don't think it's very accurate to call her a gymnastic skater.

    You may like Oksana more as a skater, and like her more as a dancer, but a lot of her positions and carriage on ice would not cut it in ballet, unlike Sasha.

  10. #175
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    They all were pretty awesome. People just have different taste or views.

  11. #176
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    I agree about Sasha's spins. I forever hear people wanting to spin like Sasha and all but they wanted to skate like Michelle. That's just been my experience. People wanted to be like both basically. This convo makes me miss the days of Michelle and Sasha. However, I'm really liking Adelina. I'm just keeping my fingers cross that she will stave off the puberty monster. I'm also liking the Japanese girls.
    There are quite a few impressive Ladies at Jr Worlds. Liza is exceptional for one so young but I prefer Adelina which is just my personal taste.

    I find it hard to compare skaters to Michelle. She was never the fastest and never jumped the highest but was a very strong all around skater, very consistent, unusually expressive and a tough competitor.
    But I think Sasha showed some unique bordering on dazzling qualities and I was a mad fan of both girls. I miss them both.

  12. #177
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    Wow, Elizaveta's program was beautiful! Christina and Adelinas were too, and I thought Polina, looked improved. Ive only seen Courtney once, but her jumps didnt look very secure here.
    Last edited by ljaeren; 03-04-2011 at 07:18 PM.

  13. #178
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting Christina's SP. She did a wonderful job! Everything beautifully landed except the 2A, and great flow and energy throughout the program. I'm very impressed. And it was nice to see Brian looking so happy with her (and Jason Brown cheering in the stands!).

    Her costume absolutely doesn't go with that 19th-C. music, though. What were they thinking?

  14. #179
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Sasha probably took extension and stretch to a new height in singles skating, but she did not "bring in the balletic style". Being balletic is not just about having good extension and stretch, it's also about the way one moves and a certain carriage one has. I agree with another poster who said Sasha was more gymnastic-like than ballet-like. Oksana Baiul had more of truly balletic style.
    Sasha, like most skaters of today brought in the Acrobatic Style. It's fine if contorntionism gets to a spectator.

    Being balletic is not lifting your leg with your hand. It's got to be by muscle.

  15. #180
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    One thing about the Russian skater and Russian Ladies included, is that they show great technique. It's so nice, at least for me, to see Correct edge take offs for the Lutz. It shows that it can be done, and there is no need for the new idea of partial credit.

    There's too much RUSH to get the credit for all the Jumps allowed even partial credit. The only way to get to Carnegie Hall is to practice, practice, practice. CoP has it's dumb points. Partial Credit promotes sloppy technique and therefore,sloppy skating.

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