Ladies - Long Program

[dorispulaski]

The american ladies, especially Gao failed to live up to expectations. Gao, in order to live up to the hype should won, and certainly not missed the podium. Looks like maybe Orser isn't such a miracle worker after all.

I would say that Courtney Hicks exceeded expectations as a lady with no international experience who skated in the first group in the SP, and finished 6th overall in a very strong field.

And Agnes skated a much better LP than she has all year.

Gao? Well, a lot of people have been touting Gao as a wunderkind, but I've never bought it, so her 4th place finish didn't disappoint me. She looks all uncoordinated arms and legs right now. Next year when she's used to her body, she'll look better.

[bekalc]

Originally Posted by Tinymavy15
The american ladies, especially Gao failed to live up to expectations. Gao, in order to live up to the hype should won, and certainly not missed the podium. Looks like maybe Orser isn't such a miracle worker after all.

Who had Gao as a favorite. I think its really pushing it to say that in order to be a great coach, you must always have the best team, winning skater etc. A coach is only as good as his/her talent in the end. Good coaches just maximize their students potential. Sometimes you can be the best coach/teacher. But darn it that other coach has an athlete who is just better than your athlete, wants it more etc.

When I saw her I thought she has grown again, so maybe it caused her problems? And I have to ask, what's happening with the axel jumps in Orser's group? Rippon struggled with his 3A whole season and now Christina seems unable to land a clean 2A.
And Orser definitely isn't a miracle worker. When Kim came to him she already had great basics and technique (though he still did a great job as a coach), something Christina lacks, imo

Its not like Adam ever had a consistent triple axel. He struggled with it pre Orser. As for Christina, if you compare Christina to the skater she was pre Orser, Gao really HAS improved. And that's kind of all you can ask from a coach.

This being said I must say that Yu-na's former coaches weren't given enough credit. Yu-na had amazing jumps way before she went to Brian, and good basics too. There were probably a number of coaches that could have made Kim in to a champion. Its not like Orser trained Kim up from a young skater the way Carroll trained up Kwan. I must say that I am impressed with the work Adelina's coach has done with her young skaters. Denis Ten, Elene G, and now Adelina. She doesn't have an Olympic champion yet, but..

[lavender]

Orser is still a good coach with or without an Olympic champ. Skaters can luck up on that day and it doesn't mean the coach is or isn't amazing.

Wanted to add that I love Elena as a coach no matter.

[miki88]

Unfortunately, Mao's career has definitely suffered as a result of her problems with the Lutz. Instead of just leaving it out completely and trying to compensate with the Triple Axel, she should have focused instead on just resolving the problems with the Lutz. Without a Lutz, any FP just looks plain wrong/odd. Hope she gets it right in time for 2014. In hindsight, it would have been better for her career if the ISU had started penalising the Flutz more severely back in 2005. I seem to remember Tara Lipinski flutzed on a number of occasions - most notably in the 1998 Olympic SP. However, she was penalised for it as it definitely reflected in her marks - she finished second behind Kwan in that SP (rectifying matters in the LP to win the Olympic title)

But why just put the spotlight on skaters who flutzed. Because if we go by that logic, it's also wrong for skaters to leave out other jumps like the loop, flips, etc. Skaters aren't really rewarded for doing all the triples, so it's no surprise for some to skip on a trouble jump if they could earn points elsewhere.

[chuckm]

I think the US ladies all performed well at JW. Having a bronze medal with all three finishing in the top 6 is an excellent result.

For that matter, maybe the US men just missed the podium. But all three finished in the top 7, and that is an excellent result as well.

[Jammers]

The age rules are asinine. Just make it so if the skater is a certain age before the competition they can compete. And if they are so worried about these young girls competing as Seniors then why the hell do they let them do SGP when they are 14 like Caroline Zhang did a few years ago? Or Mao who couldn't compete in Torino or Senior Worlds but won the SGP? They were competing against the older girls so how is that protecting them?

[lavender]

I agree the rules need to be consistent and if you can't skate in senior worlds then why are you able to skate on the senior gp circuit. However I'm for the age rule when it comes to moving to seniors. I don't know how I feel about the age when it comes to the juniors.

[cooper]

This being said I must say that Yu-na's former coaches weren't given enough credit. Yu-na had amazing jumps way before she went to Brian, and good basics too. There were probably a number of coaches that could have made Kim in to a champion. Its not like Orser trained Kim up from a young skater the way Carroll trained up Kwan. I must say that I am impressed with the work Adelina's coach has done with her young skaters. Denis Ten, Elene G, and now Adelina. She doesn't have an Olympic champion yet, but..

A little fact it was Peter Oppegard who helped Yuna with the 2A.

Anyway, congrats to Adelina, Liza, and Agnes.

[cjsk8fan]

It's still too early to predict who is going to go through puberty and keep all their jumps intact. The russian girls are impressive, but they still are so physically immature. Both look like they are about eleven. Anyway, time will tell.

[oleada]

I don't think Adelina is that tiny. Liza, yes. But Adelina's significantly taller than her and looks more mature. She's not as tall as Agnes, but few figure skaters are.

[silverlake22]

I don't think Adelina is that tiny. Liza, yes. But Adelina's significantly taller than her and looks more mature. She's not as tall as Agnes, but few figure skaters are.

She's nowhere close to as tall as Agnes from the looks of those pictures, and Agnes at 5'6" isn't a total giant like some people think. There is a chance Adelina could stay tiny though, and Liza reportedly has small parents so while she will definitely get bigger, she will likely stay very petite. Polina Shelepen is the only baby Russian who looks to be past her big growthspurt, and maybe Anna and Rosa too. Sometimes puberty isn't as hard on skaters and the years afterward when many girls fill out significantly, so where these girls are so young that could be after Sochi. Usually though, if the technique is solid most girls can adjust so Liza and Adelina will probably be ok.

[FlattFan]

I would say Agnes exceeded expectations by repeating her podium finish from last year. Her bronze here was one that was harder to earn than her silver last year (where would Kanako Murakami have placed with the same performance, eh?). After the SP, I thought Agnes was suffering a letdown from going to juniors after competing on the senior level. She really proved her competitive mettle with an exciting FS. She still has to improve her much-criticized SS, but I'm looking forward to seeing if she can crack the top 3 at Nationals next year.

Gao, well, it's disappointing that she didn't medal after being in 3rd after the SP, but I don't think many expected her to win. There was definitely a lot of pre-season hype but that was a long time ago, before the JGPF and all that. She's now 0-3 against Agnes. Since they're both part of the "next generation" of US ladies, it'll be interesting to see if Christina can even that out.

You're comparing a Kanako Murakami's bad skate to one of the better skated JW? Why don't you compare Kanako's better skate to the skates here. Kanako would still retain her world title against the two Russians. She regularly got +2 to +3 on her triple triple combo.

Gao is DOA type of skater. Scotty McShorty and Sandra Top-heavy both touted Gao as some kind of Yuna Kim. Well, she isn't. She hasn't even medaled in the Jr World. She's done growing, she's regularly doing 3x3. Very interesting some of you claimed she's growing and suffering and that's why her results are terrible. Stop making excuses for her. She's like a knock off version of Ashley Wagner. Never going to make it anywhere.

[silverlake22]

I hate all this Gao hate. She grew a ton this year anyone who thinks she looks the same as last season is blind. And she had one bad competition at the JGPF, and Zijun Li's 9th place at the JW shows just how flukey the results of that competition were. The rest of Christina's results this season have been good, finishing 4th at JW in an extremely deep field is not "terrible" at all. She's managed to get her 3f-3t consistent this season despite a 3-4 inch growthspurt, that's really hard to do. Not everyone is a child prodigy and I don't think just because she isn't as good as two 14 year old Russian wonderbabies who haven't hit puberty yet, it means she's "never going anywhere". Today is her birthday, she just turned 17, she's just starting out, so please give her a chance to prove herself on the senior ranks before writing her off. Yuna wasn't nearly as impressive as Mao in their junior days, and even in her first season on the GP, she had major stamina issues in her FS and had terrible spiral positions and a sit spin that didn't sit, but she fixed those things over the next 3 years and surged ahead of Mao and everyone else. Miki Ando was a mess when she was Christina's age and now she's winning everything at the age of 23, same goes for Alissa Czisny. Some people take longer to come into their own than others, so please give Christina a chance before writing her off. She might surprise the naysayers in coming seasons. I think she could be a medal contender come Sochi, it's all right there.

[jaylee]

You're comparing a Kanako Murakami's bad skate to one of the better skated JW? Why don't you compare Kanako's better skate to the skates here. Kanako would still retain her world title against the two Russians. She regularly got +2 to +3 on her triple triple combo.

Hmm. Where to begin.

The original post that I was responding to stated that the American ladies, including Gao, "failed to live up to expectations." My argument was that Agnes (an American lady) did better here than she did last year because even though it was a bronze this time and a silver last year, this competition was much tougher so the bronze was harder to earn. So my wondering how Kanako Murakami's gold medal winning performance at last year's JW would have stacked up at this year's JW is absolutely valid. Kanako barely won the FS last year and it was on PCS. She was second in the SP. She would not have won gold here with the same performances against Adelina. Silver is more debatable due to all the rule changes as Kanako had 3 2As in her FS and the spiral seq in the SP, which makes it hard to compare. I like Kanako, btw. :sheesh:

Gao is DOA type of skater. Scotty McShorty and Sandra Top-heavy both touted Gao as some kind of Yuna Kim. Well, she isn't. She hasn't even medaled in the Jr World. She's done growing, she's regularly doing 3x3. Very interesting some of you claimed she's growing and suffering and that's why her results are terrible. Stop making excuses for her. She's like a knock off version of Ashley Wagner. Never going to make it anywhere.

Well, I didn't make any claims about Gao's growing affecting her results. Actually, I pointed out that there was a lot of pre-season hype for her and pointed out her 0-3 record versus Agnes. I just didn't think that many expected Gao to win here, not after the way the JGPF went (and after she went 0-2 versus both Adelina and Liza). And that was my response to the original poster who said that Gao should have lived up to the hype by winning.

I agree that Gao is not the next Yu-Na Kim. But she's not the next Ashley Wagner either. She's facing a far tougher field than Ashley, Rachael Flatt, Caroline Zhang, and Mirai Nagasu ever did in juniors, and I think she did respectably well.

[miki88]

I hate all this Gao hate. She grew a ton this year anyone who thinks she looks the same as last season is blind. And she had one bad competition at the JGPF, and Zijun Li's 9th place at the JW shows just how flukey the results of that competition were. The rest of Christina's results this season have been good, finishing 4th at JW in an extremely deep field is not "terrible" at all. She's managed to get her 3f-3t consistent this season despite a 3-4 inch growthspurt, that's really hard to do. Not everyone is a child prodigy and I don't think just because she isn't as good as two 14 year old Russian wonderbabies who haven't hit puberty yet, it means she's "never going anywhere". Today is her birthday, she just turned 17, she's just starting out, so please give her a chance to prove herself on the senior ranks before writing her off. Yuna wasn't nearly as impressive as Mao in their junior days, and even in her first season on the GP, she had major stamina issues in her FS and had terrible spiral positions and a sit spin that didn't sit, but she fixed those things over the next 3 years and surged ahead of Mao and everyone else. Miki Ando was a mess when she was Christina's age and now she's winning everything at the age of 23, same goes for Alissa Czisny. Some people take longer to come into their own than others, so please give Christina a chance before writing her off. She might surprise the naysayers in coming seasons. I think she could be a medal contender come Sochi, it's all right there.

Wow she's 17 now? She's almost the same age as Mirai! I don't have anything against her but I think it's wrong to compare her to Yuna, because Kim at her age was just so much better. It's more accurate to compare young Yuna to Liza at this point. Also wasn't Miki a former junior champ as well? I think Christina has potential but she also has to deal with a lot more competition in the future. As she comes to her own, so do her competitors.