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Thread: Tomas Verner vilified

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    Tomas Verner vilified


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    GoldExpress reynycpr's Avatar
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    wow! Thanks for the link!
    Didn't even know any of this was going on...

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Artistic freedom is the controversy - not Verner. The USA and the USSR exchanged many celebrities and shows way back in the 50s. Some people approved; others didn't. Bravo, Verner.

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    If a dictator is detested and hated for brutality against his own people, why are his victims vilified as well such that any association and communication with them is deemed wrong and dispicable? Why don't they deserve some joy, comfort, and inspiration?

    The villains are the haters who jump at any chance to judge, hate, and condemn. They uglify kindness and sharing.

    Bravo, Tomas.

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    If a dictator is detested and hated for brutality against his own people, why are his victims vilified as well such that any association and communication with them is deemed wrong and dispicable? Why don't they deserve some joy, comfort, and inspiration?

    The villains are the haters who jump at any chance to judge, hate, and condemn. They uglify kindness and sharing.

    Bravo, Tomas.

    The issue is that it wasn't like the shows where for the N. Korean people, they were for the N. Korean regime, to celebrate said dictator's birthday and one show was for the elite. If this was just him performing for the N. Korean people, I don't think people would be as bothered.

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    The only opportunity to perform for the N Korean people was by invitation from the regime. Kim is an avid figure skating fan and he's at least promoting the sport and sharing the enjoyment instead of buying private performances like some ultra rich people including unethically wealthy rulers. A few famous entertainers are now revealed to have received $1M each for performing for Kadafi so now they are donating the money. Verner was doing it openly, not just for the ruler, with permissions from relevant authorities and I'm sure his monetary rewards are far from what those singers received in secret.

    Vener was not hiding anything because there was nothing to hide or to be ashamed of. He was caught off guard by the hostile reactions because he didn't expect such assignments of motives and intentions.

    Bravo, Tomas.

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    The only opportunity to perform for the N Korean people was by invitation from the regime. Kim is an avid figure skating fan and he's at least promoting the sport and sharing the enjoyment instead of buying private performances like some ultra rich people including unethically wealthy rulers. A few famous entertainers are now revealed to have received $1M each for performing for Kadafi so now they are donating the money. Verner was doing it openly, not just for the ruler, with permissions from relevant authorities and I'm sure his monetary rewards are far from what those singers received in secret.

    Vener was not hiding anything because there was nothing to hide or to be ashamed of. He was caught off guard by the hostile reactions because he didn't expect such assignments of motives and intentions.

    Bravo, Tomas.
    He may have been caught off guard, but please remember that the Czech people themselves have direct experience with that type of government (although I suspect live there was a picnic in comparision to what the N. Koreans experience). Its very possible many Czechs might be very sensative in regards to this.

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    This just seems like a misunderstanding on many different levels, but I am glad to see the Tomas is getting positive messages now and I hope his spirits will be lifted for worlds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    He may have been caught off guard, but please remember that the Czech people themselves have direct experience with that type of government (although I suspect live there was a picnic in comparision to what the N. Koreans experience). Its very possible many Czechs might be very sensative in regards to this.
    t

    Those who lived thru the bloody Prague Spring 1968 or lost loved ones at the time, might indeed be a little more sensitive to this issue. I'm surprised that Verner wasn't at least alerted as to the potential negativity from some of his countrymen of his going to perform in North Korea.

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    It is impossible to avoid offending the sensitivity of all people. I would think people who have experienced oppression would sympathetize with other people in similar situation. Verner is just a young skater performing a couple of programs to entertain some people, not a person in a power position making any political endorsment. The performance was vetted and approved by proper authorities, and done with a group of elite international skaters. What he did is in nowhere close to being a "*****", a "****" or "the lowest form of human being". People who throw such words around are those who love to throw these words around for perverse reasons.

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    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    The reason people are offended (not that I agree with them just stating the reason) is that the events Tomas took place in were specifically billed as being in honor of Lil' Kim, so they took it to mean Verner was honoring a horrible dictator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    The reason people are offended (not that I agree with them just stating the reason) is that the events Tomas took place in were specifically billed as being in honor of Lil' Kim, so they took it to mean Verner was honoring a horrible dictator.
    i agree with skatefiguring. it is too much to expect a skater to have a full PR team to do prior research on every possible engagement he might sign up for. it's possible that the people verner trusted to advise him didn't look at all possible angles, but come on, being a figure skater is a tough enough endeavor, and expensive enough--how many skaters have the resources and mental energy to devote to avoid offending every possible sensibility in the world?

    people who oppose kim aren't necessarily in the wrong, but i don't believe the action of those who lambast verner are defensible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skfan View Post
    i agree with skatefiguring. it is too much to expect a skater to have a full PR team to do prior research on every possible engagement he might sign up for. it's possible that the people verner trusted to advise him didn't look at all possible angles, but come on, being a figure skater is a tough enough endeavor, and expensive enough--how many skaters have the resources and mental energy to devote to avoid offending every possible sensibility in the world?

    people who oppose kim aren't necessarily in the wrong, but i don't believe the action of those who lambast verner are defensible.
    well, I am not here to judge anyone. but it is clear to me he should have been made aware of this potential after the massacre of 1968as anyone who has taken a world history class - especially if you grew up in the Czech Republic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    well, I am not here to judge anyone. but it is clear to me he should have been made aware of this potential after the massacre of 1968as anyone who has taken a world history class - especially if you grew up in the Czech Republic.
    Go online and read comments on any news about anybody, you will find all kinds of judgements, some well articulated, some argued with convoluted reasoning and some simply hateful and mean. So the potential of being judged and vilified is there no matter what someone does, because judgemental, insensitive, or plain mean people exist who love to spew hateful words. It probably makes them feel morally superior, or patriotic, or powerful enough to hurt, whatever.

    In Verner's case, in trying to find such behavior plausibly excusable, it was suggested that some people who went through certain painful experiences would be doing the intentionally hurtful accusations and labeling because of their sensitivity. Well, we don't know if this is a fact, do we? Maybe these people would feel insulted to have such insensitive behavior attributed to them.

    What I do know from similar expressions and opinions on any subject, which are unfortunately way too common, especially done with online anonymity, is that many people are indotrinated by political propaganda and have automatic and deep seated emotions associated with designated villains du jour. You know, Muslims are terrorists, Chinese are Communists, instantly and suddenly evil leaders after decades of ruling, etc. who are all out to get "us". These people don't reason, they just spew ugly names. They don't know how to reason and they see no need to because their beliefs are so ingrained that they are absolute truths not subject to exmination or explanation.

    Anybody with any public profile such as Verner will encounter such cruel accusations whenever he gives some people an opportunity or excuse. Not enough consultation or consideration will garantee it wouldn't happen. Nobody can please everybody so after some confuzzlement, he should just get over it and not even attempt to be 100% non-offensive because it's impossible. There are many who support him.

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    Whether Verner chooses to skate in North Korea (or anywhere else) is his own decision to make, but the only thing that surprises me is his 'puzzlement.' He should have had the sense to know that dealing with North Korea in any way has controversy built right into the situation, and that he was going to get this reaction from quite a number of people.

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