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Thread: Skating as art

  1. #121
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Generally speaking, the problem with some of the TV commentators is they often don't read the research, don't know the rules, depend too much on the element sheets, and don't watch the practices.
    Listen to any broadcast with Peggy Fleming and you will hear over and over comments from her about what she saw in practice.
    Further, there are broadcast teams considered better than USA teams, but why is it we hear "oh, he is the Dick Button of my country."

    Sorry, other countries don't have a two time OGM winner who revolutionized the sport with 40 plus years broadcasting experience.

    Like Plushy, most other countries want to be like Dick Button. But they can't because he occupies a unique position in figure skating history. One that Kurt or Plushy can't touch.
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-03-2011 at 12:34 PM.

  2. #122
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    Like Plushy, most other countries want to be like Dick Button. But they can't because he occupies a unique position in figure skating history. One that Kurt or Plushy can't touch.
    Everyone has their hero(s). I prefer mine to be a geuninely nice guy.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Everyone has their hero(s). I prefer mine to be a geuninely nice guy.
    To recognize contributions made on the ice and in the broadcasting booth is not the same as proclaiming someone as "my hero."
    For the record, I have heard Kurt make some awfully sarcastic remarks and that was done not when he was a crotchety old geezer but in the prime of his life.

    I have no idea how nice a man Button is, or Orser or Kurt for that matter. I don't know these guys personaly.

  4. #124
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I have no problem with commentators being negative or sarcastic, so long as they don't try to eat their colleagues in the booth. I've met Kurt, he's pretty much you get what you see... i've no met Dick, but we sat behind the commentary team during practices in 2005 and he seems pretty jovial, but he was more at ease with the guys... I do like his rapport with Terry Gannon, just not with his fellow "experts". Perhaps he just feels like the youngin's are pushing him out. He's still the father of US figure skating in many eyes.

    As for Kurt, he can come off as egotistical at times (there's a recent interview where, without hearing voice inflection he came off as his biggest fan to me lol), but he's always respectful of the audience/fellow commentators in the booth. He pretty much ignores the argument and just focusses on the skating... I don't care what country they're from I like that most in a commentator. (that being said, the only country's commentators that I ever hear argue are the ones on US TV lol but I don't get to watch a whole lot of Canadian or European broadcasts... and I don't understand Japanese, Russian or Chinese.)

  5. #125
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Mr. Ski used to smoke with Dick Button outside the arena at several Nationals, in the days when both were smoking, in the 1980's and early 1990's. He was very approachable, & Ski liked him.

    OTOH, neither of us were superfond of Peggy Fleming, who was sarcastically nasty to skaters she didn't like very much up until 1985 or so, when she moderated her tone quite a lot, after the fiasco over Elaine Zayak's foot.

    But whether Dick or Peggy are nasty or nice in real life, anyone has to acknowledge that they did a lot for US skating.

    And if you ever liked the World Pro championships in Landover, Md, Dick is definitely your guy.

  6. #126
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    I know what you mean, Tonichelle. Sometimes a person can have a healthy ego but still not be a jerk to others. I'm thinking of two successful, charismatic men that I've known. One of them--you had to get him in the right mood, or watch out. He could eat you for breakfast. The other one always went out of his way to treat the people around him nicely. In the case of Browning (Button as well, of course), I know only what I see in public or read, or hear from you guys. He seems generally to be modest, but he's have to be clueless not to know how good and how revered he is. So if he is sometimes egotistical, it's understandable. Nice that it doesn't seem to interfere with his good manners.

    I would like to add (as a Browning fan of long standing!) that talking about him in this thread is not off-topic. Any discussion of skating as art should involve Browning, even in an oblique way.
    Last edited by Olympia; 04-03-2011 at 01:42 PM.

  7. #127
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I would like to add (as a Browning fan of long standing!) that talking about him in this thread is not off-topic. Any discussion of skating as art should involve Browning, even in an oblique way.
    sooooo very true, though I rewatched an interview he gave in 2000 and he gives most of the "creative" nod to teh ones who came up with the program, he trusted them and they gave him gems. They were just lucky enough to have someone versatile enough to do it all...

  8. #128
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    That great term from biology, symbiosis, comes to mind. It's rarely better exemplified than when innovative, musical choreographers and sterling performers come together. Look at Tim Goebel (who seems to be a very nice guy, but one doesn't think of him and art in the same breath) skating to Lori Nichol programs. She is one of skating's most memorable choreographers, but Tim's lack of that X factor makes her programs for him look technically proficient and that's it. On the other hand, Michelle makes Lori look like Balanchine. In a similar vein, can you imagine how excited any choreographer must be when he/she gets a chance to design a program around Kurt?
    Last edited by Olympia; 04-03-2011 at 04:55 PM.

  9. #129
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    If it's the recent interview that Kurt gave about his participation on SOI that seems egotistical to some, I was annoyed for him with the interviewer who basically wanted to talk about Kurt being an over the hill old man. He was rather condescending to one of the greatest in the sport and Kurt had to remind him of his own achievemets that the interviewer seemed to have no clues about or chose to not recognize. Kurt refused to play the role of sorry regretful failure the interviewer seemed bent on focusing.

    Kurt Browning, a great athlete, artist, and entertainer on ice. An expert commentator and a family man off ice.

  10. #130
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Look at Tim Goebel (who seems to be a very nice guy, but one doesn't think of him and art in the same breath) skating to Lori Nichol programs. She is one of skating's most memorable choreographers, but Tim's lack of that X factor makes her programs for him look technically proficient and that's it.
    While I would agree, some of the programs she gave him were pretty lame anyway (The Queen medley, really, Lori?) However his 05 Short Program was brilliant in choreography and execution. Completely different skater.

    On the other hand, Michelle makes Lori look like Balanchine. In a similar vein, can you imagine how excited any choreographer must be when he/she gets a chance to design a program around Kurt?
    We'll have to disagree, Michelle's "expression" has never worked on me. I feel like I've seen all of her programs by just watching one. After her retooling both Kawahara's and Dean's choreography later on in her career I can't blame Lori for that. But again - that's just me. i'm a low-brow art lover apparently.

  11. #131
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Look at Tim Goebel (who seems to be a very nice guy, but one doesn't think of him and art in the same breath) skating to Lori Nichol programs. She is one of skating's most memorable choreographers, but Tim's lack of that X factor makes her programs for him look technically proficient and that's it.
    But compared with Goebels' presentation skills before he went to Lori, it is still a thousand per cent improvement. His first coach, Carol Heiss , taught Tim how to jump quads, but Nicole was able to get his second mark skills up into the "acceptable" range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle
    We'll have to disagree, Michelle's "expression" has never worked on me. I feel like I've seen all of her programs by just watching one.
    Michelle's very first program was perfection, so there was nothing for it but to keep on doing it.

    It's like apple pie. Just because I had a delicious piece yesterday doesn't mean I don't want another one today.

  12. #132
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^the best apple pies are in Holland if you ever visit. They keep grand pieces of apple inside almost natural and uncooked, not much butter and syrup. And the pieces they serve are grand enough to feed a bunch

    Not liking a commentatorś style doesnt mean you dont appreciate what he has done for the sport or respect his history as a skater. Being a talented skater doesn't mean you can be tha same as a tv person. I m speaking about Hamilton btw, that I know I have said many times here I cant watch him for long. Especially USa nationals he gets over the top. That doesnt mean I dont acknowledge what he has contributed to figure skating, or that I know more than him- that i only wish(if that was the case 90% of fans shouldn't comment on a skater, cause we cant do a quad neither a bielman and they surely know better than us). I know he comments for a certain audience and he has SOI to promote, so fair enough. It is more like I cant watch people speaking loud in general, tv or not. It like the alarm clock snoozing feeling, instead of relaxing and watch fs, I become nervous.
    Button is another story, whatever he says he is Mr Button. Plus in my opinion he has very colorful voice, he describes his own way and your imagination runs.
    Terry Gannon, I had a crash on him i think, when I was younger. And I liked Peter Carruthers, I dont remeber were all of them on ABC?
    I think when most people say he is Mr Button of my country they dont claim they have a two time OC. It just that Button is an icon and they mean that there is one commentator since ever that loves the sport so much and because of him the sport has been popular in the country, his voice has been connected with the fs broadcast. At least this is what I think.
    Last edited by seniorita; 04-03-2011 at 06:33 PM.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    For the record, I have heard Kurt make some awfully sarcastic remarks and that was done not when he was a crotchety old geezer but in the prime of his life.
    I had no idea sarcasm and niceness were two mutually exclusive things.

  14. #134
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teenes View Post
    I had no idea sarcasm and niceness were two mutually exclusive things.
    (and here I was worried you were going to come down on me for saying Kurt has an ego )

    ETA: Seniorita, yes Peter and Terry were with ABC, but both have gone to Universal Sports for figure skating coverage! (And I had a major crush on Terry too, still do!)
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 04-03-2011 at 06:57 PM.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post

    We'll have to disagree, Michelle's "expression" has never worked on me. I feel like I've seen all of her programs by just watching one. After her retooling both Kawahara's and Dean's choreography later on in her career I can't blame Lori for that. But again - that's just me. i'm a low-brow art lover apparently.
    No sweat, Tonichelle. It's always amazing to me how each of us can get something so different from the same performer. It's one of the more beguiling aspects of art, actually. I have a whole group of friends who are ready to banish me whenever Marlon Brando comes into the conversation. I think even Laurence Olivier thought Brando was the best American actor in film, and he leaves me completely cold. Completely! I guess that makes me a lowbrow art lover--but you're certainly not one on the strength of your reaction to Michelle. There's enough talent out there for everyone to find an object of veneration. We'll both agree to agree about Kurt.

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