Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 76

Thread: Shawn Sawyer - Out or In?

  1. #61
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    There is always a good side and a bad side, not neccesarily a good news. Many other federations' ways might be better worked from time to time.
    This needs to be reiterated. We've seen examples this season already.

  2. #62
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,666
    Bradley's presentation scores jump dramatically at nationals because he LOVES to perform in front of the "home crowd" I have never been in an international event arena, so i don't know if he has the same energy radiating from him then. He's fantastic at nationals even when his elements are off. He is always always always performing for the crowd!

  3. #63
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    There is always a good side and a bad side, not neccesarily a good news. Many other federations' ways might be better worked from time to time.

    .
    Better for who, the federation or the skater

    I care more about the skaters and don't have too much respect for alot of the federations and the officials who run them.

    Let's face it, Speedy came right out and said he needs anonymous judging because the federations can't be trusted to play fair. That of course goes from the top of the federation and includes the judges.

    Does fair play count for anything in your views of skating and sport?

    Sport at it's best can rise above that but not so sure if we have seen much of that in figure skating over the years.
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-05-2011 at 07:55 AM.

  4. #64
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    Better for who, the federation or the skater

    I care more about the skaters and don't have too much respect for alot of the federations and the officials who run them.

    Let's face it, Speedy came right out and said he needs anonymous judging because the federations can't be trusted to play fair. That of course goes from the top of the federation and includes the judges.

    Does fair play count for anything in your views of skating and sport?

    Sport at it's best can rise above that but not so sure if we have seen much of that in figure skating over the years.
    Here you go:

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...re-world-teams

    Now back on topic...

  5. #65
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    We have seen how Bradley has done at Intl events.
    What about Abbot? Has he distinguished himself at Worlds, Olympics or even the less pressurized WTT? I recall some pretty bad skates bordering on disatrous from Abbott over his career.

    Joubert may have bombed at the Olympics but he has a strong record at Worlds. That is not the case with Abbott.

    If the topic was about federations manipulating skaters to get what they think is their best team at Worlds then I am not impressed with the way certain federations put themseleves ahead of the skaters.

    At the least the skaters should know what the rules for making a Natl team are going to be. Like I said I care more about the skaters and not a group of officials whose main goal seems to be in protecting their position of power at the expense of the skaters.

  6. #66
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,338
    Historically, I think the USFSA has had the opposite problem from other federations. Most national federations are top down organizations, with a strong entrenched leader calling the shots.

    The USFSA is made up of a cohort of unintimidated volunteers serving on a variety of boards, councils and committees. Grass roots representation from local clubs is strong. The President typically serves only a three-year term.

    In fact, a few years back President Chuck Foster served less than two years before resigning in frustration. He claimed he just could not maintain control of the unruly mob of grass roots volunteers who were the real power in the organization and who could never agree on which way they ought to be pulling. (Sort of like America in general. )

    The outcome of this situation was the creation of a new post, the Executive Director. The job of this person is to run the day by day affairs of the organization, but not to be involved in policy-making. The individual hired, David Raith, had a background in the financial side of sports television, so it was pretty clear that they were looking for someone whose main job would be drumming up television contracts.

    Once in a while we hear speculation about "the Broadmore group" or some kind of the "SoCal coalition" trying to maneuver behind the scenes to the benefit of their skaters, but the climate of the USFSA overall is just not conducive to pushing the fortunes of one skater over another internationally.
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-05-2011 at 08:54 AM.

  7. #67
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    Better for who, the federation or the skater
    For both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    We have seen how Bradley has done at Intl events.
    What about Abbot? Has he distinguished himself at Worlds, Olympics or even the less pressurized WTT? I recall some pretty bad skates bordering on disatrous from Abbott over his career.
    Firstly, I don't think the question should be Bradley vs Abbott. No way should Bradley be kicked off the team for Abbott. You can make an argument that Miner should've been (the relatively close scores), but not at this point.

    Secondly, lets explore.

    Jeremy Abbott at Worlds: 11th (2008), 11th (2009) and 5th (2010)
    Ryan Bradley at Worlds: 15th (2007), 18th (2010)

    Jeremy Abbott at the Olympics: 9th.
    Ryan Bradley at the Olympics: N/A

    Jeremy Abbott on the GP circuit: 5 medals, three gold including one GPF win.
    Ryan Bradley on the GP circuit: two medals, no gold, never made the GPF.

    Jeremy Abbott at 4CC: two bronze medals (2007, 2011)
    Ryan Bradley at 4CC: 11th (2004), 4th (2006), 5th (2010)

    Jeremy Abbott's PB: 237.72 (08/09 GPF)
    Ryan Bradley's PB: 212.75 (2008 Skate Canada)

    Mathman's point is interesting.

  8. #68
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    291
    Hmm.....I thought this thread was about Shawn.....

  9. #69
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    For both.



    Firstly, I don't think the question should be Bradley vs Abbott. No way should Bradley be kicked off the team for Abbott. You can make an argument that Miner should've been (the relatively close scores), but not at this point.

    Secondly, lets explore.

    Jeremy Abbott at Worlds: 11th (2008), 11th (2009) and 5th (2010)
    Ryan Bradley at Worlds: 15th (2007), 18th (2010)

    Jeremy Abbott at the Olympics: 9th.
    Ryan Bradley at the Olympics: N/A

    Jeremy Abbott on the GP circuit: 5 medals, three gold including one GPF win.
    Ryan Bradley on the GP circuit: two medals, no gold, never made the GPF.

    Jeremy Abbott at 4CC: two bronze medals (2007, 2011)
    Ryan Bradley at 4CC: 11th (2004), 4th (2006), 5th (2010)

    Jeremy Abbott's PB: 237.72 (08/09 GPF)
    Ryan Bradley's PB: 212.75 (2008 Skate Canada)

    Mathman's point is interesting.
    Mathman's post is interesting but you left out a comparison, the one that counts right now which was Ryan and Jeremy's score from 2011 Natls

    Guess that doesn't help make your point but that's the way it goes sometimes.
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-05-2011 at 01:16 PM.

  10. #70
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravensque View Post
    Hmm.....I thought this thread was about Shawn.....
    Hah! Sawyer is just a pawn. What this thread is really about is, who -- by virtue of long dominance of their federations -- are the true puppet masters of figure skating.

    By the numbers: David Dore. President of Skate Canada 1980-84, after which he crated a new position for himself, Director General. In total, he served for 21 years before ascending to the number two position in the ISU, Vice President for Figure Skating, in 2002.

    Valentin Piseev, President of the Russian Federation for 21 years. Elevated himself to a new position, General Director , in 2010.

    Newcomer Didier Gailhaguet, a mere 9 years at the helm of the French Federation. It would have been more except that he took a three-year hiatus to serve out his suspension by the ISU, being re-elected afterward in 2007. He will probably have to serve a few more years before awarding himself the Director General crown.

  11. #71
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Machiavelli could not have done much better than the three you mentioned

    Well maybe better than that klutz Gailhaguet who got caught.

  12. #72
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    By the numbers: David Dore.
    Medals! Medals! Medals!

  13. #73
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Historically, I think the USFSA has had the opposite problem from other federations. Most national federations are top down organizations, with a strong entrenched leader calling the shots.

    The USFSA is made up of a cohort of unintimidated volunteers serving on a variety of boards, councils and committees. Grass roots representation from local clubs is strong. The President typically serves only a three-year term.

    In fact, a few years back President Chuck Foster served less than two years before resigning in frustration. He claimed he just could not maintain control of the unruly mob of grass roots volunteers who were the real power in the organization and who could never agree on which way they ought to be pulling. (Sort of like America in general. )

    The outcome of this situation was the creation of a new post, the Executive Director. The job of this person is to run the day by day affairs of the organization, but not to be involved in policy-making. The individual hired, David Raith, had a background in the financial side of sports television, so it was pretty clear that they were looking for someone whose main job would be drumming up television contracts.

    Once in a while we hear speculation about "the Broadmore group" or some kind of the "SoCal coalition" trying to maneuver behind the scenes to the benefit of their skaters, but the climate of the USFSA overall is just not conducive to pushing the fortunes of one skater over another internationally.
    I'm trying to separate fact from imagination.

  14. #74
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,338
    Joe, a good place to start is the public documents on the organization and structure of the USFSA. (Click on the various menu items on the left.)

    http://www.usfigureskating.org/conte...enu=leadership

    Edited to add: If you want to refresh your memory about the issues surrounding the resignation on Chuck Forster as USFSA President, you will enjoy this Hersh article about it from 2005. (Foster blasts everything from the USFSA governing council to Cinquanta to the CoP ).

    Foster, of Duxbury, Mass., whose two-year term as USFSA president was to expire in May, said he no longer could work with a U.S. federation executive committee that "resists change and wants to continue as a mom-and-pop store instead of a professional organization."
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...ssociation-abc
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-05-2011 at 09:28 PM.

  15. #75
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    Mathman's post is interesting but you left out a comparison, the one that counts right now which was Ryan and Jeremy's score from 2011 Natls

    Guess that doesn't help make your point but that's the way it goes sometimes.
    Oh, absolutely. I have to admit I'd LOVE to see what an international judging panel would've done with those two skates back to back, but c'est la vie. The Technical Panel and Judges combined deemed Bradley better on that night.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •