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Thread: Adam Rippon Makes a Coaching Change

  1. #31
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    But wouldn't Yu-na have won anyway? For example she seems happy and looks to be in great shape training with Peter Oppagard, could she not have won the Gold under his tutelage? She is a great talent, that accounts for something no matter who her coach is.

    Gao has improved, but has not lived up the hype. Not saying that was Orser's fault, as she was rather over-hyped to begin with.
    Really nice to hear this idea from a non-YuNa fan. As a YuNa fan however, I will say that I personally suspect Orser did instill a lot in YuNa. Perhaps not so much technically (she had most of that before she trained full-time with Orser), but one should never underestimate the psychological aspect--helping a student to have the confidence to believe that not only can they get to the top, but also that they can prepare for and fix the bumps in the road. I think Orser and his team at the Cricket Club had a big hand in that. Those things are things that YuNa will have forever going forward, tackling ANY new challenges. So to see her now, happy and confident, isn't necessarily evidence that she had it all along or would have had it with a different coaching history. My 2 cents.

    (And I felt very protective of YuNa and agitated during that breakup--almost hostile towards Brian Orser--but I insist on recognizing him for what I think he had a major role in, regardless of all that.)

    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Oh I absolutely think that Yu-na could have won without Orser. I felt the entire time people were calling Kim ungrateful, and suggesting Orser made her, that people were ignoring where Kim was before she went to Brian. Junior World champion, Grand Prix Final champ. Amazing jumping technique, and jumps that came out of huge speed since before she ever came to Orser's door. Not to mention the fact that Yu-na already knew how to compete as well.
    The coaches who coached her before she went to Brian were not given NEARLY enough credit. It doesn't mean Brian isn't a good coach. As for Christiana, if you want to talk about her improvement look at where Gao was before she went to Brian. Still don't know if she's the next star though.
    Love your rational, balanced posts. I agree with all of it.

    And I know that neutral fans will push and ask "why does that old breakup have to be brought up again?" but to suggest the opposite (i.e. do you think that any issues with YuNa and Brian would be completely different in every aspect when it comes down to Adam and Brian?) is even more preposterous. There were certain things that Brian did that made me a little uncomfortable in some of his interactions/dealings with YuNa, and then the Kiss N Cry thing with Adam...well, they both found some reason to leave, it's not totally out of line to wonder if some of the issues for both skaters wouldn't overlap.
    Last edited by prettykeys; 04-02-2011 at 10:38 AM.

  2. #32
    Mashimaro on Ice
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    Yes, but having a Junior Champ under your wing is quite different than having the Olympic champ. Yuna's early coaches deserve credit but so does Brian. He helped her through her injuries and made her into a stronger skater overall. Most importantly, she was given an environment to flourish. Another coach could have done it but we can never know because the only way to know for sure if we can rewrite the last four years with a different coach, but that's impossible.

  3. #33
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    It seems to me the people who argued "Brian made Yuna" were every bit as silly as the ones who argued "Yuna made Brian"

    I hope this is a good move for all concerned, and I hope if there are any hard feelings , they all keep quiet about it... With Adam staying at the club , it seems it's not an emtional issue for anyone.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Oh I absolutely think that Yu-na could have won without Orser.
    Really? From a boring and tired school girl in 2006 who was so fed up with her sport and plagued by injuries to the Olympic Champion in 2010? You honestly think the training overload method that her Korean coaches were bombarding her with was working until Orser taught her to step back and less can be more means she could won without Orser? Oh and before you suggest you mean to say she could have gone to a different coach in the 2009-10 season instead and still won, let me remind you of what happened to Michelle Kwan when she made an Olympic season coach change - No Olympic Gold

    I think some Yu-Na fans are so obsessed that they think Yu-Na Kim is super human. :sheesh:

    If Adam Rippon can't land Triple Axel during crunch time in the 2010-11 season when he obviously has the jumps for sometime already : see the 2010 Worlds and the Japan Open and his two World Junior Titles, then it likely is not Brian's fault. Because besides the jumps, Adam has got the whole package. Plus, let me refresh the memories of Brian bashers here, Adam also fell several times on his Triple Lutz during important competitions this year. So, anyone want to blame Brian for Adam falling on his Triple Lutz as well as though he hasn't totally mastered the jump yet. If by his age, he can't still master the Triple Lutz, then he might as well change gender and try to compete in the Ladies event instead.

    The bottom line is I don't think Adam's decision to leave Brian is a wise one and a decision that I think he will regret. Adam's skating has improved greatly overall in his two years with Brian. What happened to his consistency, I am not certain. He seemed on and off, sometimes great, sometimes not. But the issue seemed to be a jump consistency issue, which is easier to correct IMO than some more fundamental problems. I hope Adam is not blaming Brian for his own failure to land jumps like Triple Lutz because if his coach change decision is mostly based on his own luckluster results this year, then I think he will end up paying for it in the long run.

    As for Yu-Na Kim being super human, let's wait till after the 2011 Worlds. If she bombs, as many think she probably will, then I hope the same Brian bashers would learn a dear lesson and be ashamed.

  5. #35
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post

    As for Yu-Na Kim being super human, let's wait till after the 2011 Worlds. If she bombs, as many think she probably will, then I hope the same Brian bashers would learn a dear lesson and be ashamed.
    Thanks for the heads up. I will try to enjoy Yuna's skating now. With no expectations, the better.

    Anyway, I wish Adam well next season.

  6. #36
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    As for Yu-Na Kim being super human, let's wait till after the 2011 Worlds. If she bombs, as many think she probably will, then I hope the same Brian bashers would learn a dear lesson and be ashamed.
    YuNa already bombed at the 2010 Worlds. But that's apparently not Brian's fault, even though he was there as her coach.

    Adam bombed some competitions this year. But according to you, it's not Brian's fault, even though he was around as his coach.

    If YuNa bombs @ Worlds 2011, as implied by you it will be because Brian isn't there.



    Can we be a little more consistent and fair and...rational?

  7. #37
    Long live the Queen! YunaBliss's Avatar
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    Ok, I tried to stay away, but since even wallylutz is chipping in....

    My view is (i) Yuna had the talent to win gold with any coach and (ii) Brian deserves all the credit in the world for making Yuna OGM and (iii) nothing can take away 4-years of their magical partnership. In short, they were both super. And that's why it hurt so much when their partnership ended.

    As a die-hard Yuna fan, I still love and respect Brian very much.

    Now, as for 2011 Worlds, I will take bet against anybody who thinks Yuna will bomb at the worlds - I will give you 1:3 odd, how about it?

  8. #38
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Really? From a boring and tired school girl in 2006 who was so fed up with her sport and plagued by injuries to the Olympic Champion in 2010? You honestly think the training overload method that her Korean coaches were bombarding her with was working until Orser taught her to step back and less can be more means she could won without Orser? Oh and before you suggest you mean to say she could have gone to a different coach in the 2009-10 season instead and still won, let me remind you of what happened to Michelle Kwan when she made an Olympic season coach change - No Olympic Gold
    Yu-na clearly needed a better training environment then the one she had in Korea. But once again who is to say she couldn't have gone to lets say Peter in the beginning and he would have said the same things Orser said. Many coaches would have told Yu-na train less. Yu-na from the clips is in great shape now and has made some significant improvements on some of her weaknesses under Peter. (In regards to line) The jumps though will tell the story.

    And the issue with Michelle Kwan was that Michelle went to NO COACH. If Michelle had gone to a proper coach, perhaps her issues with her flip would have been addressed. Yu-na actually went to a proper coach. Plenty of top skaters have gone to new coaches the next year and managed to win OGM. Look at Shizuka! The issue with Michelle is that Michelle didn't have a proper coach supervising her training, seeing any technical issues etc.

    I'm not saying that Yu-na would have won OGM without Orser. But I do think there were a number of coaches who could have taken Yu-na from 2006 and guided her towards there. All of the basics were already there. And the talk is that it was David who was the one who really made Kim happy/enjoying skating.

    As for Yu-Na Kim being super human, let's wait till after the 2011 Worlds. If she bombs, as many think she probably will, then I hope the same Brian bashers would learn a dear lesson and be ashamed.
    She may or may not win Worlds 11. If she doesn't win her choice to not skate until Worlds may be a factor. But once again Kim was a Champion before she went to Brian.

    If Adam Rippon can't land Triple Axel during crunch time in the 2010-11 season when he obviously has the jumps for sometime already : see the 2010 Worlds and the Japan Open and his two World Junior Titles, then it likely is not Brian's fault.
    Adam's 3axel has NEVER been consistent. Landing a clean 3 axel is rare for him. Whether that is Brian's fault or not, I don't know. Because Adam clearly has had issues with this jump before.
    Last edited by bekalc; 04-02-2011 at 11:17 AM.

  9. #39
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YunaBliss View Post
    Ok, I tried to stay away, but since even wallylutz is chipping in....

    My view is (i) Yuna had the talent to win gold with any coach and (ii) Brian deserves all the credit in the world for making Yuna OGM and (iii) nothing can take away 4-years of their magical partnership. In short, they were both super. And that's why it hurt so much when their partnership ended.

    As a die-hard Yuna fan, I still love and respect Brian very much.

    Now, as for 2011 Worlds, I will take bet against anybody who thinks Yuna will bomb at the worlds - I will give you 1:3 odd, how about it?
    I agree but LOL at the betting, now there's a thought. Figure skating as a betting sport. It would surely bring in much-needed cash into the sport, haha! And it's unpredictable enough to make it viable.

    I'd take you up on the bet. Not because I think YuNa will actually bomb, but if she does, I'll win. And if she doesn't, I'll still win because of course I don't want her to, and it would make my day if she shines.

  10. #40
    Long live the Queen! YunaBliss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I agree but LOL at the betting, now there's a thought. Figure skating as a betting sport. It would surely bring in much-needed cash into the sport, haha! And it's unpredictable enough to make it viable.

    I'd take you up on the bet. Not because I think YuNa will actually bomb, but if she does, I'll win. And if she doesn't, I'll still win because of course I don't want her to, and it would make my day if she shines.
    So money is more important to you than Yuna winning?! Tsk, shame on you!

    BTW, since this topic IS about Adam - I wish him best of luck. Although my feeling is that Brian had very little to do with his subpar performances... and it was mostly Adam, who needs to improve his mental toughness.
    Last edited by YunaBliss; 04-02-2011 at 11:20 AM.

  11. #41
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YunaBliss View Post
    So money is more important to you than Yuna winning?! Tsk, shame on you!
    No, of course not! I'll happily lose the bet and see YuNa not-bomb (I gain more that way, and she doesn't have to win ) but it's kind of like insurance. Because if she does happen to bomb (which I think is unlikely, but given the nature of this sport), I will be major bummed and winning the bet would be a small form of consolation.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Really?

    ...If Adam Rippon can't land Triple Axel during crunch time in the 2010-11 season when he obviously has the jumps for sometime already : see the 2010 Worlds and the Japan Open and his two World Junior Titles, then it likely is not Brian's fault. Because besides the jumps, Adam has got the whole package...

    ...The bottom line is I don't think Adam's decision to leave Brian is a wise one and a decision that I think he will regret. Adam's skating has improved greatly overall in his two years with Brian. What happened to his consistency, I am not certain. He seemed on and off, sometimes great, sometimes not. But the issue seemed to be a jump consistency issue, which is easier to correct IMO than some more fundamental problems. I hope Adam is not blaming Brian for his own failure to land jumps like Triple Lutz because if his coach change decision is mostly based on his own luckluster results this year, then I think he will end up paying for it in the long run....
    I agree that the axel is not a jump he needs to learn and your take on he needs to learn to perform it in "crunch" times or at least needs to look more confident with the jump. Maybe that was the issue, Brian was not the right person in the "crunch" times? Who knows? I don't think this was a hasty decision watching the K&C all season, I think it was in the making for some time. But I think just because someone can or has performed a skill doesn't necessarily mean they can teach it. And just because they can't teach it doesn't make them a bad person. Who knows how much time Adam has been with this technical coach this season as opposed to last? Maybe that was the issue.
    As far as Yuna, I think much of her growth as a performer was David Wilson's mastery not so much Orser. (IMHO) I think that if Yuna didn't have the "goods" to win Worlds this year she would have WD by now, I expect that she will be in top form.

  13. #43
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    I don't follow gossip, either. I wish Brian Orser the best, and I hope the new coaching arrangement works out for Adam. I have immense respect for Brian O. and Adam.

    This is in reply to Joesitz. I thought I pressed the "reply with quote" button.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    I think the 3A is more of a consistency in competition issue for Rippon than anything else. He has landed them fine in past competitions (both 3A landed in the FS at 2009 Junior Worlds, 2010 Four Continents, and Japan Open this past fall).
    I agree, I remember some vids from the 2011 Nats practices where he was landing good 3axels (and I'm talking about the 75% of them)

    It wasn't a good season for Adam and I understand that he's looking for a change. If it's a good decision or not we can't know until we see the results. I really hope Briand will help him not only with the 3axel but also with his consistency in competition.
    And I also would like to see some non-David Wilson choreo for him in the new season, at least in one of his programs, but that's just a personal thought.

  15. #45
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    [...]

    As for Yu-Na Kim being super human, let's wait till after the 2011 Worlds. If she bombs, as many think she probably will, then I hope the same Brian bashers would learn a dear lesson and be ashamed.
    If this is the general expectation among the judges heading to Worlds then I am glad. So much better for Yuna when she finishes her performance.

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