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Thread: Skating as Sport

  1. #16
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Absolutely, I definitely am. While I can enjoy a flawed performance, a clean performance of high technical calibre is obviously more thrilling.
    To me it depends. There are some skaters who will never thrill me no matter how clean they are. And there are some who thrilled me even with falls, like Sasha. For me it's not so much whether a skate is completely perfect but whether a skater has true highlights, whether technical or articistic.
    It's a total thrill for me to watch Yuna's triple-triples. The speed and height and technique for me are breathaking. Alissa's spins are breathaking and so were Sasha's (usually) and the flexibility during her spirals. I usually also loved Michelle Kwan and Sasha's footwork. Midori's ITO's jumps in general always a highlight. Those are the kind of things I remember. With clean skates, it is thrilling to watch skaters gain momentum and confidence and really be able to put it out there but there are also clean skates out there that are so meh I can barely remember them.

    But to answer Joe's question, the answer I suppose is definitely yes - I'm completely emotionally invested in watching how well each skater executes the jumps and other elements. I don't think the two sides can be separated so neatly though. I think a skater can be great at moving to music or whatever but if they don't have the technical goods to skate cleanly and with precision and sharply the skater won't shine. Kim Yuna said during a recent interview that she thinks the emotion and artistry comes first from having solid technique. I've always thought that about her and about Michelle Kwan.
    Also, for me a perfect spin, or a gorgeous russian split or amazingly precise footwork - there's something artistic about that. How you put it all together is what matters of course, but having the athletic talent to do those things helps you be more artistic.

  2. #17
    Mashimaro on Ice
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    Both the artistic and technical aspects of the sport are important. However, I do feel that there has been an over-emphasis on the technical aspects of the sport in recent years. It probably has to do with how the CoP forces fans to view skating through microscopic lens. Performances can no longer be truly appreciated at face value. One has to go check the protocals at a later time.

  3. #18
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    miki88 and layfan - The nitty gritty aspects of the CoP have shown that the two part (tech/pc) are very much separated. Each segment is specialized whereas in the 6.0 system, they meshed into one beautiful skate. That's what LaBianca writes about. I tend to agree with her.

  4. #19
    Shoe Diva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    miki88 and layfan - The nitty gritty aspects of the CoP have shown that the two part (tech/pc) are very much separated. Each segment is specialized whereas in the 6.0 system, they meshed into one beautiful skate. That's what LaBianca writes about. I tend to agree with her.
    This is why I continue to loath and despise CoP. A perfect skate is just that - perfect combo of artistic and technical prowess. And not necessarily the heardest jumps or footwork but a program that is so seamless, so emotional and simply on point that you remember the skate not a particular element. Brian and Yags olympic skates, Kwan's Red Violin, DivaKwara's 04 world, Irina's 05 worlds, and pretty much whenever S&Z hit the ice are immediate thoughts but I know there are more floating around... Gosh, how I miss the flawless skate... those skates that made everyone understand just how cool this sport actually is... the good ol' days...

  5. #20
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    mmm but at some point sport has to win out, and like it or not the more difficult the program the "better" it is in SPORT. The judging system is tweaking to try and get it to where you still have to be clean - but without discouraging the athletes for going for the more difficult programs.

  6. #21
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    As dance

    Also going against the grain, I am moved more by a clean, heartfelt performance than a technically perfect one: Jeannie Rochette's Olympic SP, Lu Chen's Olympic LP, Matt Savoie's The Mission LP, Kwan's Lyra Angelica. I look at figure skating more like dance than sport, about the skater's intention and honesty in a step than movement for movement's sake. Athletic excellence is great, but to me it only becomes transcendent when a skater uses that excellence with purpose.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by draqq View Post
    Also going against the grain, I am moved more by a clean, heartfelt performance than a technically perfect one: Jeannie Rochette's Olympic SP, Lu Chen's Olympic LP, Matt Savoie's The Mission LP, Kwan's Lyra Angelica. I look at figure skating more like dance than sport, about the skater's intention and honesty in a step than movement for movement's sake. Athletic excellence is great, but to me it only becomes transcendent when a skater uses that excellence with purpose.
    That's it exactly. And transcendent is what I look for. It's rare but worth the wait. I'm perfectly happy to call it a sport and have points and requirements and all, but for me, they're not the ultimate goal.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    I think Dai was the best skater of the Men in Vancouver but he was placed third.
    Did Evan and Plushy really do a better job of presenting the technical elements?
    Perhaps, and maybe it is my old 6.0 blood that favored Dai at the Olympics.
    Yes, Dai is a great skater, but he was only 5th in the freeskate because of his mistakes in technical elements (not just Evan and Pushy ahead of Dai, but also Lambiel and Chan). I´m happy that he got a medal, which I don´t believe would have happened in 6.0 system.
    Last edited by Jaana; 04-14-2011 at 05:47 AM.

  9. #24
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I see a lot of posts on personal emotional values here. In all sports including Figure Skating, the emotional value is the WIN. I agree a particular performance of a skater can raise one's emotions (but not everyones).

    Regardless of the personal emotional value of a fan, Tara and Evan won their Olys. Tara and Evan were emotionally transported along with their fans to the highest sensibilities. Fans of Kwan, Plushenko were disheartened. Those contrasting emotions were the result of Sport. In Figure Skating there is emotional values in winning a gold medal; and for some, the subjective performance of a skater is more important. Is Figure Skating a Sport?

  10. #25
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I see a lot of posts on personal emotional values here. In all sports including Figure Skating, the emotional value is the WIN. I agree a particular performance of a skater can raise one's emotions (but not everyones).

    Regardless of the personal emotional value of a fan, Tara and Evan won their Olys. Tara and Evan were emotionally transported along with their fans to the highest sensibilities. Fans of Kwan, Plushenko were disheartened. Those contrasting emotions were the result of Sport. In Figure Skating there is emotional values in winning a gold medal; and for some, the subjective performance of a skater is more important. Is Figure Skating a Sport?
    That is an interesting observation.

    When I watch NFL football I am disappointed when my team loses, especially a playoff game. But I rarely recall having strong subjective feelings that my team won or was cheated if the scoreboard shows the other team had 24 points and my team had 21.

    The NFL's use of replay and the way they share it with the fans goes a long way in establishing trust.

    But that is typically not the case when I watch soccer. Many, many times when the team I follow loses I find myself with strong feelings that the result was not fair. Whether is was a questionable offside call that cost my team a goal or a penalty shot awarded to the other team I find myself questioning the officiating and result of the game.

    My feelings about skating are much closer to how I feel about soccer regarding results. I love all three sports so not exactly sure why I feel the way I do.

    BTW, Dai was never a favorite of mine until last season when I found his programs the most enjoyable to watch.

    If I had been scoring under 6.0 my scores for Dai would have been:

    Tech: 5.6
    Presentation: 6.0

    None of the others would have received a score from me that could have beaten Dai as his superior presentation would have been too much for the others to overcome with only slightly better tech.

    My subjective old memory does not remember all the "mistakes" Dai made in the LP. In my memory it was far and away the best skate of the evening.

    Another thing that I remember is how happy Dai looked on the podium. Good sportsmanship always impresses me and yet Maradona was my favorite soccer player.
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-14-2011 at 09:46 AM.

  11. #26
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife View Post
    This is why I continue to loath and despise CoP. A perfect skate is just that - perfect combo of artistic and technical prowess. And not necessarily the heardest jumps or footwork but a program that is so seamless, so emotional and simply on point that you remember the skate not a particular element. Brian and Yags olympic skates, Kwan's Red Violin, DivaKwara's 04 world, Irina's 05 worlds, and pretty much whenever S&Z hit the ice are immediate thoughts but I know there are more floating around... Gosh, how I miss the flawless skate... those skates that made everyone understand just how cool this sport actually is... the good ol' days...
    KW, you know I love you, but those rose tinted spectacles need to come off. S&Z from 2003 onwards I might be able to agree with but S&Z from 1994-2000 were technicians who could have been skating with noise cancelling headphones on for how little importance the music or presentation were. 2000-2002 they knew they could not compete with S&P and B&S in the presentation side so they purused greater technical feats like the throw quad. Things finally got there by 2003.

    Maybe, just maybe, if strong skaters like S&Z took the best part of 8 competitive years to figure it out (all under 6.0 I might add) then maybe some of the COP skaters will do the same?

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