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Thread: Bradley wants to 'bring home some hardware'

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    Bradley wants to 'bring home some hardware'


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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    It's an interesting thing that this season is still shorter than a regular season would be for Ryan, due to his starting training late.

    I can't believe Tom let him go with trying 15 quads in a row, though. That is just crazy.

    And I'm glad he's trying to polish his levels up a bit.

    I don't think a medal is possible for Ryan, but I'd love to see him really have two great skates, so that he can finally do his best at a World Championship.

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    In his interview with Kurt Browning, Bradley talked about how much he loved to jump. In practice, he would stroke for "8 seconds" and started jumping. Here his entire emphasis is on jumps again. He does have the highest base value if he does not cheat his jumps but what would his PCS be? At 27, his body has held up incredibly well with the insane number of quads he's been doing but that can't be good in the long run. He may have to depend on his charm and personality in a show career.

    Bradley has always maintained how motivating it is to train with Chan but it's interesting here he's trying to keep up with Chan's jumping but not skating skills. In interviews when Chan first started training in CS, Bradley mentioned even Chan's cross cuts made him want to improve. Now it's all about jumps, jumps, and more jumps.

    I mentioned before the Worlds delay is good for Bradley as well as skaters who need more healing or practice time. Not so good for others so it's about how they manage physically and mentally. This is a lonnnnnng season. Bradley can and does take advantage of that. He could do quite well.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-07-2011 at 08:24 AM.

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    The thing is the high base value for jumps is offset by low BV for everything else. His advantage over Patrick Chan from Jump base value is less than a point (69.23 for Bradley vs 68.43 for Chan), which Chan earns back by the first step sequence.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    No one expects Bradley to come close to Patrick Chan--even Bradley seems to be hoping for a podium finish, not a win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    The thing is the high base value for jumps is offset by low BV for everything else. His advantage over Patrick Chan from Jump base value is less than a point (69.23 for Bradley vs 68.43 for Chan), which Chan earns back by the first step sequence.
    I used a slightly assumption for Bradley and come to 69.5 for his total BV for jumps. I add a double toe behind his second Quad to make it a combo, as it logically should have been - not a sequence. Otherwise, his actual total base value from jumps at the U.S. Nationals is actually smaller than that of Chan's due to his 2nd Quad being given the sequence discount and no double toe behind it.

    In other words, for Bradley's base value in jumps to materialize, he would have to surpass his jumping content from the U.S. Nationals, otherwise, the advantage remains on paper only and not a real one since he never actually executed those jumps successfully - just as Johnny Weir who listed Quad for his Olympic FS but never even intended to attempt it at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    No one expects Bradley to come close to Patrick Chan--even Bradley seems to be hoping for a podium finish, not a win.
    You must have missed some of the posts on this subject here...

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ I must have missed them, too. A few people -- me, for instance -- posted that if Bradley reels off all of his planned big-jump fireworks then the judges might be impressed enough to give him a top ten finish.

    Chan fan paranoia seems to have magnified this harmless hope into a boogieman that can be exorcised only by shining the purifying light of CoP numbers on it.

    As for Ryan -- hey, the boy is doing the best he can with the measure of talent that the good Lord, in his wisdom, has bequeathed him.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Exactly.

    In general, people were defending Ryan's ability to finish top 10 to secure 2 spots for next year, when some people claimed he had no chance of doing that. No one was claiming he was going to win. Serious Ryan fans kind of hoped he could end up as high as 6th, if some other skaters stumble.

    And whatever else Ryan is, he is not Johnny Weir, and he isn't listing jumps he can't do. He will try those quads & 3A's. He may not land them, but he will definitely try them. The idea that he is listing them for effect is just too

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    He's a competitor, and he's in it to win! How can you expect a competitor to do well, if he is not aiming higher than what he is believed to be capable of? If his top-10 finish is realistic enough, then he should aim for the podium finish. That's what a sport is all about, especially as this can be his last opportunity to participate in the World Championships. Go, Ryan!!!

    Daiuske Takahashi maintained throughout the 09/10 season he wanted nothing but the gold at the Olympics. He said he knew the prospect was not realistic, and especially after learning Plushy was back on the game, he thought even a podium finish was not realistic. But he also said if you are aiming the third finish, you're likely to end up being the 4th or the 5th. He thinks he managed to win the bronze because he was always aiming for the gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Exactly.

    In general, people were defending Ryan's ability to finish top 10 to secure 2 spots for next year, when some people claimed he had no chance of doing that. No one was claiming he was going to win. Serious Ryan fans kind of hoped he could end up as high as 6th, if some other skaters stumble.

    And whatever else Ryan is, he is not Johnny Weir, and he isn't listing jumps he can't do. He will try those quads & 3A's. He may not land them, but he will definitely try them. The idea that he is listing them for effect is just too
    a hearty AMEN! to you, Doris! As a Ryan fan all I want are two great, clean, and entertaining skates. He's not one of the smoth edge skaters (he had a chance to become that and he didn't. people fault him for it, and that's their choice, but he could be a whole lot worse of skater too) but he is a good jumper (when he's on). If he just focusses on the job at hand and doesn't worry about placements or the bad stuff that's happened before he should be fine... and in the top 10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    And whatever else Ryan is, he is not Johnny Weir, and he isn't listing jumps he can't do. He will try those quads & 3A's. He may not land them, but he will definitely try them. The idea that he is listing them for effect is just too
    You misunderstood what I said. Here is my comment:

    In other words, for Bradley's base value in jumps to materialize, he would have to surpass his jumping content from the U.S. Nationals, otherwise, the advantage remains on paper only and not a real one since he never actually executed those jumps successfully - just as Johnny Weir who listed Quad for his Olympic FS but never even intended to attempt it at all.
    For him to achieve a BV of 69.5 on his jumps, he would have to successfully complete his Quad toe combo, which he didn't attempt at the U.S. Nationals, and as a result, received a sequence penalty on the 2nd Quad. Even the Double Toe was added for him by me when getting to the 69.5 since that's about the only realistic jump he could put behind that 2nd Quad as he doesn't have space for another Triple of any kind. Therefore, the number ImaginaryPogue crunched in terms of 1 point BV advantage for Bradley is a theoretical advantage since Bradley never actually successfully completed a program with a BV of 69.5 in jumps. His actual BV for jumps at the 2011 Nationals is actually 66.02, which is about 2.4 points behind Chan's jump BV from his Nationals. Using the Johnny Weir example was a poor choice on my part since it was a little confusing as to where I was going with that and lead you to believe I was inferring that Bradley is bluffing, which is not what I mean at all. I couldn't think of another better example at that time.
    Last edited by wallylutz; 04-07-2011 at 09:35 PM. Reason: Because somebody called me Chan fan paranoia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ I must have missed them, too. A few people -- me, for instance -- posted that if Bradley reels off all of his planned big-jump fireworks then the judges might be impressed enough to give him a top ten finish.

    Chan fan paranoia seems to have magnified this harmless hope into a boogieman that can be exorcised only by shining the purifying light of CoP numbers on it.

    As for Ryan -- hey, the boy is doing the best he can with the measure of talent that the good Lord, in his wisdom, has bequeathed him.
    I too must have missed something since I don't understand the bolded part of your post. Can you direct me to such event on this board? The most recent discussion on Bradley was on Shawn Sawyer thread. I dismissed Bradley's podium chances and then used CoP to generously boost his possibilities at Worlds. What is the boogieman and how is the purifying light of CoP used to exocise it? As a Chan fan, I don't know what there is to be paranoid about or that any Chan fan would consider Bradley a challenger let alone being paranoid about it. When you are backing a phenomenal talent, you don't concern much with challenges from other skaters. Chan is constantly challenging himself.

    I am an unabashed fan of Patrick Chan and I made that clear from the day I joined the forum. I've defended his scores and I've applauded and defended those who won events over him. I would like to know what is "Chan fan paranoia" so it wouldn't be a boogieman itself.

    I brought up Chan on this thread because it was asked of Bradley and his answer illustrates his mindset and emphasis on jumps, consistent with his recent interview with Kurt Browning, which I described for those who have no access to the video. It also interests me as a contrast to Yuzuru Hanyu who had one opportunity to watch Chan practice and the effect on him is completely different. Bradley is training with Chan on the same rink almost everyday and he is motivated to practice hard to improve the element that he already loves and is best in. Hanyu, OTOH, upon seeing Chan live, was awed and inspired to actually imitate Chan's skating and surprised at the increased speed. Here lies the difference between motivation and inspiration. Motivation is reinforcement of one's pursuit and chosen path while inspiration shows one a new and better way of doing things and a different or additional means to success. Hanyu has several idols he looks up to and I see him as someone with a potential to be a great rounded skater whereas Bradley's narrow focus will remain narrow. He is motivated to stay his course instead of being inspired to broaden his scope or try to raise the level of his skating and spins to be closer to that of his training mate who is the best in the world.

    Just observations. Not judgements because to each his own. And I will keep observing because it interests me greatly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    No one expects Bradley to come close to Patrick Chan--even Bradley seems to be hoping for a podium finish, not a win.
    I brought up Chan as an example. Bradley's goal of a medal is a laudable one, but essentially the advantage that he has (the hard jumps in the 4T and the 3A) is neutralized by everything else (the low PCS, the low BV for non-jump elements). Blades of Passion mentioned that it's not out of the realm of possiblility for Bradley to medal, and BoP is definitely knowledgeable; Joesitz also mentioned that he felt that Chan vs Bradley was the rivalry.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    I too must have missed something since I don't understand the bolded part of your post. Can you direct me to such event on this board?
    I am sorry if I offended anyone. I was referring to posts of the type of #12 above by Wally Lutz).

    Chan is going to win worlds by 20 points. He will get straight 9's across the board in PCSs, well-deserved. He will hit a bunch of quads. Why then the hand-wringing about whether Bradley can or cannot amass 69.5 base points if he skates his best?

    When you are backing a phenomenal talent, you don't concern much with challenges from other skaters.
    That was the point I was trying to make.

    I brought up Chan on this thread because it was asked of Bradley and his answer illustrates his mindset and emphasis on jumps, consistent with his recent interview with Kurt Browning, which I described for those who have no access to the video. It also interests me as a contrast to Yuzuru Hanyu who had one opportunity to watch Chan practice and the effect on him is completely different. Bradley is training with Chan on the same rink almost everyday and he is motivated to practice hard to improve the element that he already loves and is best in. Hanyu, OTOH, upon seeing Chan live, was awed and inspired to actually imitate Chan's skating and surprised at the increased speed. Here lies the difference between motivation and inspiration. Motivation is reinforcement of one's pursuit and chosen path while inspiration shows one a new and better way of doing things and a different or additional means to success. Hanyu has several idols he looks up to and I see him as someone with a potential to be a great rounded skater whereas Bradley's narrow focus will remain narrow. He is motivated to stay his course instead of being inspired to broaden his scope or try to raise the level of his skating and spins to be closer to that of his training mate who is the best in the world.
    What I was trying to get at in my comment about God-given talent is that Bradley will never skate like Chan (in terms of blade-on-ice skills, edging, footwork, transitions, steps and turns) no matter what motivation or inspiration might possess him. If training with Patrick got him at least to pour on the coal in the jumps department, good for him.

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