Bradley wants to 'bring home some hardware'

Blades of Passion · Apr 8, 2011

Ryan Bradley can get a medal at Worlds if he skates his best. His tech content is no joke and it's not as if the field is locked in. Pretty much EVERYONE is inconsistent and only Chan and Takahashi will be held up if they make major mistakes. Just look at Europeans - the highest scoring LP was 152. If Ryan Bradley delivers his SP and then skates his LP at least as well as he did at Nationals 2010, he will definitely score higher than 152. Nobunari Oda is a headcase and Kozuka, while having the potential to score huge, has his inconsistencies and won't be held up as much as Chan or Takahashi.

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 8, 2011

I maintain what I said elsewhere. If Bradley scores top six, I'll be floored. It can happen, I've been wrong more times than I've been right (life's more fun that way anyway). His technical content may be no joke, but his PCS certainly are.

Blades of Passion · Apr 8, 2011

His PCS won't be more than a few points behind anyone who isn't named Chan or Takahashi if he delivers the goods and the rest falter.

janetfan · Apr 8, 2011

Mathman said:
^ Are you referring to the post that you quoted? Why is it disappointing that I think Patrick Chan is going to skate lights out at worlds and sweep away the opposition? Who do you think is capable of keeping pace with him?

Back in the olden days, the question was, could Chan without a quad beat the other top guys with quads. Chan has put that question to rest. I might be wrong, but my opinion is, no serious question remains about the men's events at worlds.

(But I still hope that Bradley makes the top ten.)

I sort of agree with you mathman but I am not convinced yet. Evan beat Chan like a drum in Vancouver and I am not so sure we won't see something like this in Moscow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF_3e_YzTr0

Chan still needs to prove he can step up and skate his best under pressure. I hope he and all the guys skate well in Moscow.

An "ice dancer" with jumps is an interesting concept and fun to watch. But the "chosen one" needs to shed his reputation as the "splat king" and perform well when it matters most.

Mathman · Apr 8, 2011

SkateFiguring said:
poorly veiled sarcasm.

I never use sarcasm.

When people see sarcasm in a post where none is present, how would you characterize that?

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 8, 2011

Blades of Passion said:
His PCS won't be more than a few points behind anyone who isn't named Chan or Takahashi if he delivers the goods and the rest falter.

We keep mentioning his technical content. But what we mean is his jump content. How much is he gonna give up on his spins/footwork? This season has shifted towards the jumps (and he himself is mentioning that pretty much dominates his practice). , but how many points is he giving up there?

I guess my point is that Bradley is unable to absorb mistakes in his score as easily as other skaters. He scored 151 at his own Nationals for a skate the internationally would've been closer to 130 (5 points lost for the two URed quads, and I'm being generous to suggest that the PCS loss would've only been 0.6 per component).

Jeff Buttle scored mid 7's for his LP at Gothenburg for his perfect skate. As did Patrick Chan for his strong (one weak landing, two "lowered" jumps) LP in LA. While it's unfair to compare PCS like that, Bradley's best would likely be high sixes internationally.

Oda faltered at the GPF with two falls and a UR, and his PCS was still 78. What do you think a squeaky clean Bradley would score? High sixes to seven is still an eight point difference. Plus, will his mocking program really go over well in Russia?

If I'm underestimating him and he does pull off a top six placement, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and welcome any crow served my way (well, not welcome, but you know what I mean).

ETA: If one sees sarcasm where none is there (which I did, Mathman), I guess I'd suggest you didn't make the point you were hoping to make.

janetfan · Apr 8, 2011

By far my favorite line from yesterday day was:

"this harmless hope than can be exorcised only by shining the purifying light of CoP numbers on it."

:bow:

Brilliantly expressed but apparently it ruffled a few feathers and has more than one poster "'crying wolf."

I am reminded of this line from "Hamlet"

"Methinks he doth protest too much"

When one sees sarcasm where none is intended perhaps the word "paranoid" comes to mind.

The use of "Chan fan paranoia" also seemed reasonable enough as we have not seen numerous posts from fans of Dai, Kozuka, Joubert, etc repeatedly using CoP voodoo to knock Bradley's chances or the hopes of his fans.

A nice apology was offered by not accepted as sincere :think: :disagree:

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 8, 2011

Hernando said:
The use of "Chan fan paranoia" also seemed reasonable enough as we have not seen numerous posts from fans of Dai, Kozuka, Joubert, etc repeatedly using CoP voodoo to knock Bradley's chances or the hopes of his fans.

A nice apology was offered by not accepted as sincere :think: :disagree:

All right. Lets try that than.

This was Bradley's statement that seemed to raise eyebrows:

Ryan Bradley in the Universal interview said:
I definitely want to be on the podium. I know that there are a lot of good guys out there. I also understand the circumstances with how long their season's been. I'm pretty sure I have the most difficult program planned because I do two triple Axels and two quads. Going with the highest technical score, you're always relevant. I feel so confident. I can do these programs very cleanly and I'm just anxious to get there and go do it. I want to bring home some hardware.

1. Going in with the highest base value (not technical score, but we'll get to that) is definitely an advantage.

2. The question than comes is Bradley actually doing so? Now, Hernando calls it COP voodoo, but my understanding is that the only way I can tell if this statement is true (that Bradley is going in with the highest base value) is to examine the elements he does, their placement, and do that math. Hernando, do you know a better way of examining the veracity of Bradley's statement that doesn't involve what you deride as COP voodoo?

3. I'm genuinely sorry you think we're knocking the hopes of his fans. As an aforementioned Chan fan (the ones riddled with paranoia, of course), I'm actually more worried about Chan's chances than say, someone like Blade or pangtongfan, who believe that he's gonna sweep his way to Sochi (ptf) or will win at least two worlds and likely Sochi (Blades). Of course, I get annoyed at everyone thinking it's so inevitable as it's a brilliant way to dismiss what he does on the ice, but oh well, cross to bear and all that jazz.

4. Joubert's not a COP skater. Why would his fans use COP to defend him?

5. I don't believe the apology was sincere. It also wasn't directed at me, so that's neither here nor there.

dorispulaski · Apr 8, 2011

By the way, Bradley also claimed he was trying to bring up his levels on other stuff, by taking classes with his sister (who happens to be a "spin doctor") and with his old coach. I know he completely reworked his f/w in his SP. He thinks he has a high base value, based on that work.

He may well be deceived; many who thought their new spin was level 4 have had a big surprise in international scoring. And many whose spin was level 4 in theory couldn't perform that spin when it counted. However, I have no reason to believe Ryan was intentionally lying when he listed his base score.

If Kevin Reynolds is replacing Shawn Sawyer at Worlds, I expect he may actually have the highest base value though.

Snoopy · Apr 8, 2011

I'm not a HUGE fan of Bradley (although I have nothing against him either) but I see no reason why he couldn't bring home a medal if he skates 2 perfect programs with lots of Quad combos -- he has personality... kinda sorta like another quad king that I/we know and love who has lots of personality + jumps (but not much else).... and he won lotsa medals!
The only reason he wouldn't win a medal as well as that other person is because he doesn't have the reputation or backing of the judges.

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 8, 2011

I don't think Ryan was intentionally lying either. His reworked SP footwork was more about not doing it with his back to the judges the entire time, I thought (what he said in the interview with Browning).

As for Reynolds.... well, honestly, if he actually ends up with the highest base value (two quads in the short, three/four in the long), I'll be very surprised. Impressed, but surprised. If there was a coach/student relationship I could sever, it'd be his with Joanne McLeod, so I have some baggage.

Violet Bliss · Apr 8, 2011

"Chan fans paranoia" is a direct insult to Chan fans so yes naturally feathers are ruffled as someone as intelligent as Mathman must have expected. Saying no sarcasms exist in a post that says

Chan fan paranoia seems to have magnified this harmless hope into a boogieman that can be exorcised only by shining the purifying light of CoP numbers on it.

is further insult on our intelligence. You may claim our intellegence is nonexistent but that would be as credible as climing that you never use sarcasm.

What do you call seeing paranoia where one does not exist, Mathman? Paranoia about Chan losing to a generally assumed non-contender is plainly ludacris and a baseless assignment of a mental pathology to a specifically called out group of people - "Chan fans". So now derision for Chan is extended to his fans and self defence is futher claimed as proof of paranoia. What do you call such behaviour?

Some of us have to stand up to such affronts so don't expect direct insults to fellow board members to be tolerated until put-downs and falsely attributed characters become accepted premises for futher assaults and contempt.

Stick to the subject, like analysing a skater's programs and competitiveness within the current scoring system, and stop personal attacks on skaters and their fans, your fellow forum members.

Bluebonnet · Apr 8, 2011

Hernando said:
By far my favorite line from yesterday day was:

"this harmless hope than can be exorcised only by shining the purifying light of CoP numbers on it."

Brilliantly expressed but apparently it ruffled a few feathers and has more than one poster "'crying wolf."

I am reminded of this line from "Hamlet"

"Methinks he doth protest too much"

When one sees sarcasm where none is intended perhaps the word "paranoid" comes to mind.

The use of "Chan fan paranoia" also seemed reasonable enough as we have not seen numerous posts from fans of Dai, Kozuka, Joubert, etc repeatedly using CoP voodoo to knock Bradley's chances or the hopes of his fans.

A nice apology was offered by not accepted as sincere :think: :disagree:

I see no "Chan fan paranoia" in this thread.

All I read were reasonable analysis and personal opinions. No one can use "CoP voodoo to knock Bradley's chances or the hopes of his fans" except the international judges at the games Bradley is in, who are, I assume at least, not in this thread, if they are sometimes visiting this forum. You are giving too much power to the Chan fans, Hernando. You constantly reminds me of another poster who was very active in this forum.

janetfan · Apr 8, 2011

I admire the passion and think "Chan Fan Euphoria" is great.

I still hold my breath everytime he jumps same as I do for Alissa and used to do when Sasha was competing.

I question the views on Bradley's PCS before he even skates.
I wonder why the CoP gives Joubert such good PCS when he is clean (or close to clean) and why they drop so much when he makes mistakes on his jumps.

Seems to me there is something odd about a scoring system that fluctuates so much on PCS for some skaters depending how they well they JUMP but not others. :think:

I think I have a bad case of CoP paranoia.

Mathman · Apr 8, 2011

Let me back up a little.

I never use sarcasm. Sarcasm means deliberately saying the opposite of what you really mean in order to make fun of someone. I have 20000 posts on this board. Zero of them feature sarcasm.

I never apologize insincerely. Indeed, I rarely apologize at all.

I am sorry I called Chan fans paranoid.

This is what I think about Bradley. If he lands all of his big jumps he will score well. To me, that statement is an utterly innocuous, even banal, truism. It has little more content than, if Bradley skates well he will skate well.

Bradley's own statement is equally vacuous. He has a bunch of hard jumps planned, maybe harder than the other guys, and if he lands them he has hopes of making the podium.

I startles me when such harmless statements are met with what seems like a circling of the wagons, accompanied by the lobbing of sundry CoP grenades.

As for Patrick Chan, it startles me greatly when people see sinister double meanings when skating fans praise him. If someone says, I think Patrick will win 2011 worlds big time and will continue to be a favorite though Sochi -- well, that person thinks that Patrick will win 2011 worlds big time and will continue to be a favorite through Sochi. Yet Imaginary Pogue says, that's an insult to Patrick. (?)

Tonichelle · Apr 8, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
ETA: If one sees sarcasm where none is there (which I did, Mathman), I guess I'd suggest you didn't make the point you were hoping to make.

Isn't there fault to be had on both sides when there is a misunderstanding?

He may well be deceived; many who thought their new spin was level 4 have had a big surprise in international scoring. And many whose spin was level 4 in theory couldn't perform that spin when it counted. However, I have no reason to believe Ryan was intentionally lying when he listed his base score.

Exactly. He may very well have these thoughts because of how he was scored at nationals and then fixing little things the way he reportedly has makes him think it'll be that much better. Then again being National Champion could give him a sense of "now I need to look like one" and he's taking it completely seriously and we'll see some smoother skating. Who knows.

demarinis5 · Apr 8, 2011

Dai will repeat and be World Champion again. I base my opinion on COP Voodoo and/or Paranoia and/or Sarcasm. :biggrin:

Tonichelle · Apr 8, 2011

demarinis5 said:
Dai will repeat and be World Champion again. I base my opinion on COP Voodoo and/or Paranoia and/or Sarcasm.

you're starting to sound like KW (where is she, anyway?)

janetfan · Apr 8, 2011

demarinis5 said:
Dai will repeat and be World Champion again. I base my opinion on COP Voodoo and/or Paranoia and/or Sarcasm.

You forgot "and/or politics" although I include that under "CoP voodoo."

blue dog · Apr 8, 2011

Let Ryan aim high.

"People don't fail because they aim too high and miss, but because they aim too low and hit"

I do not want Ryan aiming for the top ten so next year's guys can get two/three spots. I want him to aim to win so he can be in the top ten at least!

Bradley wants to 'bring home some hardware'

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

ImaginaryPogue

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

janetfan

Match Penalty

Mathman

ImaginaryPogue

janetfan

Match Penalty

ImaginaryPogue

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Snoopy

ImaginaryPogue

Violet Bliss

Bluebonnet

janetfan

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Mathman

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

janetfan

Match Penalty

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!

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