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Thread: Who Can put the Pressure on last years medalsist ladies Champions?

  1. #16
    Mashimaro on Ice
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    Well, more so than others, she has the reputation to put her in medal contention even in her worst days.

  2. #17
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    My point is that (especially given what has occurred) anything can happen. I'm not ready to crown anyone in particular. Yes, Yuna and the Japanese ladies have an advantage right from the start and will likely make up the podium. But stranger things have happened.

  3. #18
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    My point is that (especially given what has occurred) anything can happen. I'm not ready to crown anyone in particular. Yes, Yuna and the Japanese ladies have an advantage right from the start and will likely make up the podium. But stranger things have happened.
    I don't think anybody in their right mind would dispute that. Heck even I would admit there's a chance Carolina Kostner could win the world title and Mao and Yuna both end up off the podium. (Though I would say the chances of that happening are not much higher than the chances I win the lottery.) I don't see where people got the impression that I thought the results are guaranteed.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Well, more so than others, she has the reputation to put her in medal contention even in her worst days.
    Actually, she has a reliable 3/3 combination even on her worst days which puts her in medal contention, in addition to being strong in program components.

    And at "more so than others," which isn't even close to being true. First of all, Yu-Na hasn't bombed that often in her entire career, so there is less of a need to rely on reputation at all.

    Your implication is that others can't rely or rely less on reputation to put them in medal contention on their worst days. Well, this season there were quite a few skaters with a "reputation," both male and female, who got top PCS marks when their performances were less than stellar and got a boost in placement, but their name wasn't Yu-Na Kim.

    Try isolating a skater's TES marks from the SP/LP and seeing where it ranks versus their overall placement/PCS. For Yu-Na, where her TES would place her overall has never been lower than her actual overall placement, even with her worst days, which indicates that independently of an argument about her artistry/component scores, what she accomplished technically was enough to justify at least that minimum placement (if not more). This cannot be said of all other skaters with a reputation who have had a bad day, which means PCS (the mark more prone to subjectivity and being influenced by reputation) played a larger part in determining their placement. That does not necessarily mean that that overall placement is wrong, but there is more subjectivity at play and that certainly opens their placement up more for debate.

    Many skaters have benefited from reputation on a bad day and it's not exclusive to any single skater, but Yu-Na has not been the biggest beneficiary of reputation by a long shot. I can name a half dozen skaters from this season alone who benefited in placement more from the subjective side of the scoring system than Yu-Na ever did.

    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    My point is that (especially given what has occurred) anything can happen. I'm not ready to crown anyone in particular. Yes, Yuna and the Japanese ladies have an advantage right from the start and will likely make up the podium. But stranger things have happened.
    I agree with this, of course. Nobody's crowned until the competition's over, and I could very well see a dark horse candidate in the ladies breaking through to the podium (Alissa or Kostner being the most likely ones, IMO). That said, I think people are talking about a skater's chances of success based on past history, which seems reasonable.

    This Worlds still feels weird to me and I'm not sure what to expect from the ladies in...Russia.

  5. #20
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    Many skaters have benefited from reputation on a bad day and it's not exclusive to any single skater, but Yu-Na has not been the biggest beneficiary of reputation by a long shot. I can name a half dozen skaters from this season alone who benefited in placement more from the subjective side of the scoring system than Yu-Na ever did.
    Exactly...*cough*Carolina Kostner *cough*Kiira Korpi *cough**cough* miki ando

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Your implication is that others can't rely or rely less on reputation to put them in medal contention on their worst days. Well, this season there were quite a few skaters with a "reputation," both male and female, who got top PCS marks when their performances were less than stellar and got a boost in placement, but their name wasn't Yu-Na Kim.
    At Worlds last year, she had one of her "bad days" and she got a 65 in the PCS portion for her FS. No one else in the ladies was coming close to that range during the Grand Prix this season. In fact, hitting 60 was already a feat. As a Olympic champ, she does have an advantage over others in terms of reputation. The same can be said for Virtue/Moir. This is not necessarily a bad thing since there are reasons for her having a higher reputation, which you obviously have listed in your argument.

  7. #22
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    I don't quite understand this rep thing.

    How you skated yesterday has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do with how you will skate today.

    Rep should be abolished. Otherwise, why bother to hold the competition? Just FedEx the Gold to whomever is statistically favored to win.
    Last edited by R.D.; 04-13-2011 at 05:59 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I don't quite understand this rep thing.

    How you skated yesterday has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to how you will skate today.

    Rep should be abolished. Of course, it won't be.
    Only in an ideal skating world would that happen!

    I think reputation comes into play because the top skaters are known to have better skating skills and choreography (to an extent) than the rest of the field. However, I do think the marks should vary in the execution and performance sections depending on the performance on that day.

  9. #24
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    "Known to have"?? Come on man- it's like giving the LA Lakers an automatic 20-point lead over, say, the Memphis Grizzlies to start the game because the Lakers are "known to be" a better team. So why is the game being played? PROVE IT TO ME!!! PROVE that you're the better team! (Now, as far as refs go, that's an aside and beyond the scope of my point.)

    Why is a skating competition held? To see who is...the BEST skater, right? let me re-phrase that so it's clear...to see who is the BEST skater THAT NIGHT, right? When you throw in something as arbitrary as "reputation" in the mix...no wonder people think the results are fixed. I've been this close to quitting FS altogether due to certain skaters being propped up on bad days, receiving inflated scores even when someone who may not have the "clout" outskates them.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug_log View Post
    Don't forget Murakami! What she lacks in unorthodox jump technique she makes up for with spunk. She is fun to watch.
    If Miki, Mao or Yuna do not skate well enough to medal I would look at Alissa and Kanako.

    Kanako won a GP gold and a bronze at the GPF and another bronze at Natls. So far in her first season as a senior she has shown good consistency and the abilty to win medals. Sometimes the younger skaters don't feel the nerves as much and with lower expectations they are not under as much pressure.

    I look for Kanako to have a top 5-6 finish, but if a podium spot opens up I would not be surprised if she claimed it.

    I think this young Lady is a good competitor under pressure and that can never be overlooked.

  11. #26
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife View Post
    ...Yuna is not the most consistent of skaters and it will be interesting to see how she fares...
    Yu-na Kim has never finished off the podium. Never. Ever. Not in beginners, not in novices, not in juniors, not in seniors. Not in any grand prix event or junior or senior grand prix final, not in any four continents, not in any world championship, not in the Olympics. Not ever. Ever.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Yu-na Kim has never finished off the podium. Never. Ever. Not in beginners, not in novices, not in juniors, not in seniors. Not in any grand prix event or junior or senior grand prix final, not in any four continents, not in any world championship, not in the Olympics. Not ever. Ever.
    Didn't say podium finishes. I said consistent. BIG difference.

    But on a side note: its quite interesting being on the receiving end of one of your '"I'm waayyy too nice to be rude but your opinion is WACK!" comments... so glad to be back!!!

  13. #28
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    I think the general consensus here is that YuNa most probably will finish on the podium. I am just not sure it will be the top spot. I am not disputing the fact that YuNa has the talent and skills to win. My predictions are based on what I have seen take place on the ice this season.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Yu-na Kim has never finished off the podium. Never. Ever. Not in beginners, not in novices, not in juniors, not in seniors. Not in any grand prix event or junior or senior grand prix final, not in any four continents, not in any world championship, not in the Olympics. Not ever. Ever.
    For real, Math? Wow. What a statistic. No wonder she's considered a phenomenon. When you put it like that, she's like the Edwin Moses of skating.

    For myself, I hope she's every bit as good this year as she ever was. I love to see people rise to the occasion. I also want Mao to finish on the podium. So I'll leave the third spot open for chance and surprises (and maybe Alissa!), but I do hope those two ladies shine as brightly as they are capable of.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    As for Yuna, she's not exactly known for tripping off the podium when put under immense pressure.
    Yep. We can fairly say that YuNa is one of the most consistent podium finishers. Don't know how that point of yours got misinterpreted...sometimes I feel that some people (not anyone in particular) look for reasons to kind of put her down. I'm guessing that the lavish praise of YuNa fans contribute to making others want to do that, but YuNa's accomplishments and track record stand on their own.

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