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Thread: CoP scoring of jumps from 2010 Olympics

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    CoP scoring of jumps from 2010 Olympics

    Seeing there is still almost 2 weeks to go till Worlds and the perpetual debate on scoring continues, I remember these videos which I'm not sure if ever linked here. But they should be of interest and of great aid in the continuous debate (which may be moved to its own thread ):

    owg 2010 men sp combo jumps

    owg 2010 men sp jumps preceded by steps

    owg 2010
    men sp axel jumps


    These are not Olympic Men SP, but in the same vein:

    2010 World Ladies LP, Jumps!

    2A jumps from 2010 World Ladies SP

    3-3 Jump Combos in Worlds 2010

    Spiral sequences from 2010 World Ladies SP

    2009 GPF Ladies 3-3

    2009 GPF Ladies' SP Combination Jump(with Protocol)
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-12-2011 at 09:32 PM.

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    I only watched the first one and I just don't get how Plushenko could do a quad triple and do the most revolutions with the highest difficulty and get a tiny puny lead over people who did a 3/3? 2 points? Really? That is what doing a quad triple meant? Just goes to show doing a 4/3 meant nothing under COP at the 2010 Olympics. Zero zilch and that is why no one was doing quads anymore really.

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    If he only did a 3-3, he probably would've dropped out of the top five the rest of his performance was behind par. The quad-PCS bonus/reputation helped him a great deal at Vancouver.

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    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Undervaluation of quads is not inherent in CoP, since base values are rather arbitrary and can adjusted by technical committee as they already have this season. Now we have a quad fest even among those who derided the quad last season. If things go well in this upcoming Worlds, Chan will land three quads, including a quad-triple, and Takahashi will land the first quad flip. Even if they don't entirely succeed and fall on those quads, they'll get a buck-load of points for them. What are people going to complain about then when it comes to point value of quads?

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    That you get 7 points for falling on a quad!

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    The base value of the Quad is now correct in relation to other jumps, the remaining problems are that (A.) flawed Quads are scored too high, (B.) Quad combinations are not given the credit they deserve.

    Difficult combinations in general are not properly credited. For example, a 3Lutz+3Loop should be worth more than a mere point over a 3Lutz+3Toe.

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    Plushenko's 4T+3T BV=13.80. GOE=1.00

    Kozuka's 3Lz+3T BV=10.00. GOE=1.20

    BV difference = 3.80 and total difference = 3.60

    The 4T's BV was not as high as this season's but Plushenko's lead was not tiny puny.

    Joubert's 4T+Combo netted him 5.00 while Schultheiss's 4T+1T scored 5.40.

    Some of this year's quads received as low as 2 points for their trouble. A fully rotated quad is worth 7 points with a fall.

    A stand out observation I get is nobody does a spiral like Michelle.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-12-2011 at 10:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    .....that is why no one was doing quads anymore really.
    Scroll down on http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...e-Season/page2

    eta IPogue, I read your post as a fact stated, and my post was just facts as well. Didn't read any more into your post or mean any more by mine.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-12-2011 at 10:57 PM.

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    I wrote "was doing quads" but then I wrote "anymore" when "at that time" would have been better. I have kept up with the quads of the season thread so I know now more quads are being done. I also wrote 2 points when the it was actually three because after the video I read 13 and 11 but it was 14 and 11. Either way in 2006 that was coverted to a 10 point lead in the SP for Plushenko but in 2010 it was less than a point. Quads had been devalued by the increased value of other things as well as not being worth enough itself. The intro to this thread caught my interest but actually watching them of course just brought up how awful the 2010 Olympics was in mens and the changes the ISU made just make even snippets of the 2010 event worse to relive!

    Admire the work put into the videos though!

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    All of the ABOVE....

    It's time to ditch that SP which doesn't really show much of the Technical aspects of skating. The replacement should be a Test of Elements without music . Whatever "artistry" there is in the SP is much clearer in the LP anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    All of the ABOVE....

    It's time to ditch that SP which doesn't really show much of the Technical aspects of skating. The replacement should be a Test of Elements without music . Whatever "artistry" there is in the SP is much clearer in the LP anyway.
    Joe, your way would make this sport even harder to be a spectator sport. I'd think in the way of your idea, the skaters who are good artistically would lose some interests on what they are doing too. People like Shawn White type (what was that boy's name? too lazy to check) would be more and more. Jeremy Abbotts would be less and less. It might be worse in Ladies. I'd think without music, it'd be useless to have pretty costumes. A sport? yes. But what a boring skating will that be?
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 04-13-2011 at 08:46 AM.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    All of the ABOVE....

    It's time to ditch that SP which doesn't really show much of the Technical aspects of skating. The replacement should be a Test of Elements without music . Whatever "artistry" there is in the SP is much clearer in the LP anyway.
    I would do it the other way around. Keep the short program as is and let the skaters try to work in the elements as part of the choreography if they are able.

    Then for the long program -- no music, just a time limit. Do as many jumps and spins as you can in four-and-a-half minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    All of the ABOVE....

    It's time to ditch that SP which doesn't really show much of the Technical aspects of skating. The replacement should be a Test of Elements without music . Whatever "artistry" there is in the SP is much clearer in the LP anyway.
    I agree with you. There used to be three parts to a skating competition. I think there should be three again.

    Part 1: Jumping bee/Test of Elements. Everyone is given a list of jumps or elements that they must do. So they do them, and they are scored. No music, and just a plain costume. Only a technical score is given--no credit for choreography, sensuality, etc. This can be livestreamed, but may be too dull to watch on tv.

    Part II: A creative program with no triples or quads. Skaters must tell a story, and can use lyric music, and they must add as many creative moves as they can--hanging axels, charlottes, and all the things you rarely see any more. This would be highly subjective, but would be fun to watch. This would get only one score as well, but points would be deducted if anyone fell on their Charlotte, for example. They can do jumps up to a double axel, but the emphasis will be on artistry.

    Part III: A long program like they are today, with both components.

    This has a few strengths: a skater who falls several times or has bad technique like UR's, or can't do the harder jumps for whatever reason, will at least briefly, be at the back of the pack. Those who watch over the internet (as well as the skaters themselves) will be shown exactly what they did wrong on a large screen, so it is fair.

    The short programs should show some more interesting moves and perhaps some better music choices. Even the announcers on Unisports were complaining about the slow, leaden music of the ladies' short programs this year. Also, the ladies all do the exact same jumps, often in roughly the same order. They need to mix it up.

    The long program will remain the same.

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