CoP scoring of jumps from 2010 Olympics

Violet Bliss · Apr 12, 2011

Seeing there is still almost 2 weeks to go till Worlds and the perpetual debate on scoring continues, I remember these videos which I'm not sure if ever linked here. But they should be of interest and of great aid in the continuous debate (which may be moved to its own thread

):

owg 2010 men sp combo jumps

owg 2010 men sp jumps preceded by steps

owg 2010
men sp axel jumps

These are not Olympic Men SP, but in the same vein:

2010 World Ladies LP, Jumps!

2A jumps from 2010 World Ladies SP

3-3 Jump Combos in Worlds 2010

Spiral sequences from 2010 World Ladies SP

2009 GPF Ladies 3-3

2009 GPF Ladies' SP Combination Jump(with Protocol)

gmyers · Apr 12, 2011

I only watched the first one and I just don't get how Plushenko could do a quad triple and do the most revolutions with the highest difficulty and get a tiny puny lead over people who did a 3/3? 2 points? Really? That is what doing a quad triple meant? Just goes to show doing a 4/3 meant nothing under COP at the 2010 Olympics. Zero zilch and that is why no one was doing quads anymore really.

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 12, 2011

If he only did a 3-3, he probably would've dropped out of the top five the rest of his performance was behind par. The quad-PCS bonus/reputation helped him a great deal at Vancouver.

Krislite · Apr 12, 2011

Undervaluation of quads is not inherent in CoP, since base values are rather arbitrary and can adjusted by technical committee as they already have this season. Now we have a quad fest even among those who derided the quad last season. If things go well in this upcoming Worlds, Chan will land three quads, including a quad-triple, and Takahashi will land the first quad flip. Even if they don't entirely succeed and fall on those quads, they'll get a buck-load of points for them. What are people going to complain about then when it comes to point value of quads?

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 12, 2011

That you get 7 points for falling on a quad!

Blades of Passion · Apr 12, 2011

The base value of the Quad is now correct in relation to other jumps, the remaining problems are that (A.) flawed Quads are scored too high, (B.) Quad combinations are not given the credit they deserve.

Difficult combinations in general are not properly credited. For example, a 3Lutz+3Loop should be worth more than a mere point over a 3Lutz+3Toe.

Violet Bliss · Apr 12, 2011

Plushenko's 4T+3T BV=13.80. GOE=1.00

Kozuka's 3Lz+3T BV=10.00. GOE=1.20

BV difference = 3.80 and total difference = 3.60

The 4T's BV was not as high as this season's but Plushenko's lead was not tiny puny.

Joubert's 4T+Combo netted him 5.00 while Schultheiss's 4T+1T scored 5.40.

Some of this year's quads received as low as 2 points for their trouble. A fully rotated quad is worth 7 points with a fall.

A stand out observation I get is nobody does a spiral like Michelle.

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 12, 2011

SF, my comment was glib.

My issue with gmyers assertion is the assumption that the result (a quadless skater winning the Olympics) is because COP devalued the quad in general. It didn't.

Violet Bliss · Apr 12, 2011

gmyers said:
.....that is why no one was doing quads anymore really.

Scroll down on http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?33456-Quads-Of-The-Season/page2

eta IPogue, I read your post as a fact stated, and my post was just facts as well. Didn't read any more into your post or mean any more by mine.

gmyers · Apr 13, 2011

I wrote "was doing quads" but then I wrote "anymore" when "at that time" would have been better. I have kept up with the quads of the season thread so I know now more quads are being done. I also wrote 2 points when the it was actually three because after the video I read 13 and 11 but it was 14 and 11. Either way in 2006 that was coverted to a 10 point lead in the SP for Plushenko but in 2010 it was less than a point. Quads had been devalued by the increased value of other things as well as not being worth enough itself. The intro to this thread caught my interest but actually watching them of course just brought up how awful the 2010 Olympics was in mens and the changes the ISU made just make even snippets of the 2010 event worse to relive!

Admire the work put into the videos though!

Joesitz (RIP) · Apr 13, 2011

All of the ABOVE....

It's time to ditch that SP which doesn't really show much of the Technical aspects of skating. The replacement should be a Test of Elements without music . Whatever "artistry" there is in the SP is much clearer in the LP anyway.

Bluebonnet · Apr 13, 2011

Joesitz said:
All of the ABOVE....

It's time to ditch that SP which doesn't really show much of the Technical aspects of skating. The replacement should be a Test of Elements without music . Whatever "artistry" there is in the SP is much clearer in the LP anyway.

Joe, your way would make this sport even harder to be a spectator sport. I'd think in the way of your idea, the skaters who are good artistically would lose some interests on what they are doing too. People like Shawn White type (what was that boy's name? too lazy to check) would be more and more. Jeremy Abbotts would be less and less. It might be worse in Ladies. I'd think without music, it'd be useless to have pretty costumes. A sport? yes. But what a boring skating will that be?

Violet Bliss · Apr 13, 2011

IMO these compilations and comparisons of elements by COP points mainly demostrate the relative qualities of elements scored, not so much the exact point values as BVs are subject to adjustments year to year but are applied equally to all skaters at each competition. We may agree or disagree if a skater's jump is really better or worse than another's, regardless of the BV which is what it is, a base to quantify the relative quality of an execution.

Yes, most skaters failed to bring their A games at the Olympics.

Mathman · Apr 13, 2011

Joesitz said:
All of the ABOVE....

It's time to ditch that SP which doesn't really show much of the Technical aspects of skating. The replacement should be a Test of Elements without music . Whatever "artistry" there is in the SP is much clearer in the LP anyway.

I would do it the other way around. Keep the short program as is and let the skaters try to work in the elements as part of the choreography if they are able.

Then for the long program -- no music, just a time limit. Do as many jumps and spins as you can in four-and-a-half minutes. :yes:

Bluebonnet · Apr 13, 2011

Mathman said:
Then for the long program -- no music, just a time limit. Do as many jumps and spins as you can in four-and-a-half minutes. :yes:

The typical mischievous Mathman.

Kitt · Apr 13, 2011

Mathman said:
I would do it the other way around. Keep the short program as is and let the skaters try to work in the elements as part of the choreography if they are able.

Then for the long program -- no music, just a time limit. Do as many jumps and spins as you can in four-and-a-half minutes. :yes:

A sure way for figure skating to lose even more fans........

Bluebonnet · Apr 13, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
My issue with gmyers assertion is the assumption that the result (a quadless skater winning the Olympics) is because COP devalued the quad in general. It didn't.

I dare to ask, why is that? Yes, Plushenko has had an unsteady LP. What about SP? Was that fair to have a none-quad skater scored around 90, so close to a near perfect quad skater?

Mathman · Apr 13, 2011

Bluebonnet said:
The typical mischievous Mathman.

...but only in part. To me, many short programs have excellent performance value. Whereas a lot of long programs seem more like marathons of one element after another.

ImaginaryPogue · Apr 13, 2011

Bluebonnet, the short answer: what score would you have given Plushenko for that skate without a quad? Long answer coming later.

Olympia · Apr 13, 2011

Mathman said:
I would do it the other way around. Keep the short program as is and let the skaters try to work in the elements as part of the choreography if they are able.

Then for the long program -- no music, just a time limit. Do as many jumps and spins as you can in four-and-a-half minutes. :yes:

Gaak! Even as a joke, this suggestion gives me hives. It would be like watching one-person short-track speed skating.

CoP scoring of jumps from 2010 Olympics

Violet Bliss

gmyers

ImaginaryPogue

Krislite

ImaginaryPogue

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Violet Bliss

ImaginaryPogue

Violet Bliss

gmyers

Joesitz (RIP)

Bluebonnet

Violet Bliss

Mathman

Bluebonnet

Kitt

Bluebonnet

Mathman

ImaginaryPogue

Olympia

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