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Thread: Key quotes from Patrick Chan press conference

  1. #46
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    You know, it seems this forum has become either “Chan is a god” or Chan is evil”, and I’m bored with both extremes so I've been staying on the sidelines. But there have been some really unpleasant insinuations here, and enough is enough.

    Patrick Chan speaks honestly and says what I imagine he considers to be the truth. He also speaks inappropriately at times. There was the “you lose respect for doing Bielmanns” stuff a couple of months ago (Yuzuru Hanyu can do a Bielmann, an Ina Bauer, and has an awesome 3A and quad). He most certainly spoke inappropriately about Plushenko, and about Weir after the Olympics. He criticized Dai’s decision not to try quads in the SP - before attempting any himself in international competition. Has Patrick ever torn his ACL, and dealt with that sort of rehab and comeback? That Dai is still skating at an elite level is amazing and worthy of respect. Let’s hope that nobody else will have to go through what he did. And finally, Chan certainly called Brian Joubert a complainer, a sore loser, said that he didn’t like him, and made fun of his skating in 2009, all of it for no good reason. Jeffrey Buttle shouldn't be used to excuse it. I don’t think Jeff, a bright and articulate man who made his views clear in 2008, needed anyone to speak for him - certainly not a year after the fact and in such a manner. And no, I will not waste my weekend looking up specific quotes. Google works for everyone.

    As an aside, Joubert has always said that more skaters should do quads and that the system should reward those who try (and land) them. He said it in 2008 when he came in second and in 2007 when he won. I’ll even give a reference for the latter: the GS event summary. And he walks his talk, too, by always attempting quads himself: dozens of them in what is now a very long career, through quite a few injuries – including this season, though he probably needs knee surgery and has had other health problems. But since Joubert and Chan seem to have left all that unpleasantness in the past, I guess it would be best for fans to do so as well.

    I don’t mind Patrick Chan speaking his mind just like I don’t mind Johnny Weir or Brian Joubert speaking their minds, or anyone else, for that matter. I think many of their comments are fair and of interest to those involved in the sport, actively or as spectators. Skaters have a greater stake in what happens than we do, and have every right to share their opinions and thoughts. It's all a matter of how you express yourself.

    I do mind it when people criticize other skaters’ behavior and skating while making out their favorites to be perfect in every way, justified in every comment, the standard to which all must aspire, etc. etc. Is Patrick Chan the only good skater in the world? The only one who can do a good quad/has landed 2 quads in a program? The only one who’s ever gotten level 4 on a step sequence? The only one other skaters can and should look up to? The one who speaks the honest truth while others whine and beg their federations to help change the rules for them alone? This is ridiculous. And as to the last, the changes that were made were technical committee proposals, not federation ones.

    I will add that it's probably easier to skate well and up the ante technically when you're young and your body hasn't been banged up by a decade or so of elite level skating: think of Plushenko, Stephane, or Carolina Kostner, and the effect health issues have had on their skating. Finally, re the articles linked at the beginning of this thread, which are nominally the topic of discussion here - I don’t see anything remotely contentious about anything that was said, though it would have been a nice touch to list the European champion among the contenders.

    I’m off to lurk again. IP, your posts are as always interesting to read, even when I don’t agree with you; I’m sorry I don’t get to discuss skating with you more often (alas, this season is just too dull). Seniorita, I’m waiting for pix!
    Last edited by Buttercup; 04-23-2011 at 04:59 AM.

  2. #47
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Seniorita, I’m waiting for pix!
    I replied here that was off topic anyway

  3. #48
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    Unlike Patrick Chan, I don't mind getting in your face for the fun of it, like when the Chan Gushing Police issues tickets for violations, even in the Patrick Lane. So let me tell you a story:

    In the Golden Kingdom, there are great temples and shrines for Great Heroes from the past, elavated to God and Godess status to be worshipped, with offerings from the best of the land. There are royalties in their palaces, exalted regularly, occasionally criticised but duely defended by their loyal subjects. There are little princes and princesses watched over carefully for future greatness, especially if they are from a proper lineage. There are dukes and duchesses, counts and countesses, possible successors to the thrones, with supporters and detractors of their own.

    The Golden Kingdom is a generally civilized place with few laws. Most people go about their businesses with freedom and good manners. They get to choose their idols and manarchs, often amused with others' choices and occasionally get into my-queen-is-greater-than-your-queen arguments. However, like any society with its own culture, especially since there are few written laws, there are customs, practices, and unwritten laws. Some people even write their own laws and believe they are to be respected, enforced, and any offender duely admonished and disciplined.

    Now there is a Prince Patrick, from a humble clan which has produced great Kings over the years, who is however made from a somewhat different mould. He looks and talks a little differently and takes a little getting used to for some people. But oh can he ride his horse and wield his sword! And he started slaying dragons at a young age. But that got on a great many people's nerves for various reasons as people do find their reasons. He is called a jester who should only bow before other Royalties, be talked to but not to talk back. But the young Prince didn't read laws written for him and dared to challenge the much adored Prince Hunky, outraging Hunk's masses of devoted subjects and upholders of certain version of traditions. Prince Patrick continued on his journey, and when his horse got injured and almost threw him off in The Royal Ultimate Dragan Slaying Race, the crowd cheered, except for Prince Gaga and his own legions of die hard admirers because Prince Patrick caught up with him at the finish line, ahead by a nose. Oh, Prince Patrick kept gaining haters from the masses even as he went on to slay more dragons than any other current dragon slayers. He also plays well with other Princes and Princesses who like and enjoy play time with him. He has been invited to parties thrown by the young and beautiful Queen Divine, and he showed up to escort Princess Ingenue in her Ball. Some of the most adorable young princes even openly admire him!

    Now all these don't go well with some people at all. They charge the High Priests and Priestesses of The Royal Court for bestowing undeserved honours instead of stripping the young Prince of his noble title. In the Golden Kingdom, Pelting Prince Patrick becomes the most popular and perfectly fun game to paly anytime and anywhere. It is barrels of laughs as people outdo each other in how much and in how many ways they can put down, mock, judge and condemn Prince Patrick. It has become an instilled part of the culture and a proud tradition.

    Well, Prince Patrick is not without his supporters. After all, he does ride his horse and wield his sword gloriously and he gallantly slays one dragon after another. Most people from his clan is mighty proud of him, and a good many from all over who can see for themselves what a fine Prince he really is. But his is a clan of humble polite people who are not prone to speaking up in any loud voice, which makes Prince Patrick's outspokenness particularly jolting and unacceptable to many outside the clan, even as there are those who find it a real hoot. The prevailing culture in the Kingdom has rendered it uncool to support Prince Patrick, even unsafe to speak well of him or to refute any allegations of crimes against him. Nonetheless, a few of his subjects do boldly believe in their freedom to voice their approval of their Prince and to defend his honour while he is out busy slaying dragons. To their surprise, they discover laws have been enacted by some other denizens of the Kingdom to not speak well of Prince Patrick in public places, where Special Police patrols deligently to warn anybody out of line and spoiling the fun of Pelting Prince Patrick. To their even greater surprise, the Special Police even comes to chastize and issue tickets in an invited gathering in a private home to discuss the Prince! Heaven forbid a little shrine might be installed in a room somewhere in the Kingdom and, who knows, it might eventually even lead to a temple being built for Prince Patrick in the Land dotted with landmark Temples and all sorts of large, ornate, beautifull houses of worship.

    Well, there is an impertinent member of Prince Patrick clan who has come to live in this fabled Kingdom and, horrors, is a reckless loud mouth with no regards for private laws and private police! The scoundrel stands up and tears up the tickets and says: Prince Patrick is here, what you gonna do? I am here, what do you gonna do?
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-23-2011 at 01:59 PM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Saga of Prince Patrick
    I think you're suffering from a bit of a persecution complex.

    Patrick will win over more people if he continues to skate as well as he did at Nationals this year, rather than people constantly reiterating how perfect but persecuted he is.

  5. #50
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    This is between fans, not between the skaters who will do their own battles on the ice.

    Yes I protest the treatment of Chan fans. When I defend other skaters, I get support and arguments on the content but never about the act of defending them being outrageous and out of line as when I do for Chan.

    I don't deride other skaters, most of whom I truly admire. I cheer on others' fandom. But I see gleeful continueous derision of Chan in almost every thread as the most natural and acceptable custom. Thread drifts into discussion of other skaters are common and OK. Thread drift into Chan is OK only when it's negative and derisive. Bringing him up in any positive way is declared OT and intrusive and met with protest and eviction notice. Now even a thread about him is watched over for out of line praises and support.

    There are exclusive gushing threads for various skaters their fans enjoy as they should but a thread about Chan gets policed.

    As often, double standard is practised obliviously and unrecognized as such. It is a completely natural state of things for the practitioners. Someone pointing it out is called paranoid and suffering from persecution complex.

    I wanted to illustrate such double standard by flaunting my rights, as a board member and a fan. Thanks for helping.

  6. #51
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^from experience dont get much seriously what is being said for your fav skater or what a skater says in interviews to try to justify him, we fans tend to talk a lot and skaters even more, but the real game and impression is on ice. As Evangeline said if he continues skating like Nationals the rest are secondary.

  7. #52
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Unlike Patrick Chan, I don't mind getting in your face for the fun of it, like when the Chan Gushing Police issues tickets for violations, even in the Patrick Lane. So let me tell you a story:

    [...]

    Now there is a Prince Patrick, from a humble clan which has produced great Kings over the years, who is however made from a somewhat different mould. He looks and talks a little differently and takes a little getting used to for some people. But oh can he ride his horse and wield his sword! And he started slaying dragons at a young age. But that got on a great many people's nerves for various reasons as people do find their reasons. He is called a jester who should only bow before other Royalties, be talked to but not to talk back. But the young Prince didn't read laws written for him and dared to challenge the much adored Prince Hunky, outraging Hunk's masses of devoted subjects and upholders of certain version of traditions. Prince Patrick continued on his journey, and when his horse got injured and almost threw him off in The Royal Ultimate Dragan Slaying Race, the crowd cheered, except for Prince Gaga and his own legions of die hard admirers because Prince Patrick caught up with him at the finish line, ahead by a nose. Oh, Prince Patrick kept gaining haters from the masses even as he went on to slay more dragons than any other current dragon slayers. He also plays well with other Princes and Princesses who like and enjoy play time with him. He has been invited to parties thrown by the young and beautiful Queen Divine, and he showed up to escort Princess Ingenue in her Ball. Some of the most adorable young princes even openly admire him!

    [...]
    Who, pray tell, is this Prince Gaga?

  8. #53
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Who, pray tell, is this Prince Gaga?
    And who did Prince Patrick beat by a nose? It couldn't have been King Plushy

  9. #54
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^nobody can beat Evgeni by a nose you know It is obvious that.

  10. #55
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Who, pray tell, is this Prince Gaga?
    The one and only, Prince Poker Face.

    http://guestofaguest.com/wp-content/..._pokerface.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    ^nobody can beat Evgeni by a nose you know It is obvious that.
    That's why Plushenko and Michelle won so many championships. They could get more oxygen into their lungs than anyone else.

  11. #56
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I think the reason Patrick seems to be such a lightning rod is that he is the first outstanding pure CoP skater. Everyone who has an opinion about what the IJS does right or wrong has Patrick as exhibit A.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    You know, it seems this forum has become either “Chan is a god” or Chan is evil”, and I’m bored with both extremes so I've been staying on the sidelines. But there have been some really unpleasant insinuations here, and enough is enough.

    Patrick Chan speaks honestly and says what I imagine he considers to be the truth. He also speaks inappropriately at times.
    Yep. The above sums up my feelings as well. I like Patrick, but I think if he simply omitted half of his statements in which he comments on other skaters, he would be a lot better off.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    This is between fans, not between the skaters who will do their own battles on the ice.

    Yes I protest the treatment of Chan fans. When I defend other skaters, I get support and arguments on the content but never about the act of defending them being outrageous and out of line as when I do for Chan.

    I don't deride other skaters, most of whom I truly admire. I cheer on others' fandom. But I see gleeful continueous derision of Chan in almost every thread as the most natural and acceptable custom.
    Not sure I can agree with your implication that Chan and Chan fans are treated more horribly than other skaters and other skaters' fans in forums. Perhaps that is your impression because Chan is the skater you are most devoted to, hence your sensitivity to comments about him and in response to other Chan fans' posts is higher than it would be otherwise?

    Skaters at or near the top like Patrick Chan currently is are in the brightest spotlight and their detractors do their best to make their flaws seem larger than what they are while downplaying their strengths, while they try to showcase the strengths of their own favored skater. Usually the skater at the top is one who inspires much devotion by their own fans, and generates resentment (justified or unjustified) by non-fans who think that skater doesn't deserve it. Then those respective fans all fight it out in between competitions. There is nothing happening regarding to Patrick that hasn't happened before to other top skaters.

    Chan is not the first skater (and his fans aren't the first fans) to get a lot of flack from fans for things like controversial wins. Michelle Kwan, 2001 Skate America, anybody? I am a Michelle fan and at the time I was just so tired of it all that i wished she HAD lost so that no one would have given her such a hard time. Patrick Chan is lucky, btw, that the current IJS is around which at least explicitly breaks down for people how he was able to win. At the time the confusion regarding the 6.0 system led to even more misunderstanding regarding Michelle's win than there needed to be.

    I was just re-visiting Michelle's 1998 Olympic performances and was seeing the same tiresome Youtube stalker (getrealandsee/ithinkformyself/etc) who, since 2006, has been spewing the same ugly comments about Michelle Kwan over and over and over again.

    This happens when your skater gets to the top and for whatever reason even continues long after your skater has left it.

    The best defense comes from facts and the scoring system and your skaters' abilities and results versus other skaters' abilities and results, and I credit you for doing quite a bit of that. Telling other fans that Chan is treated in an unacceptable manner by them and Chan fans are treated horribly, however, doesn't garner much sympathy from me.

  13. #58
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    As a Daisuke fan, I did not take any offence at all from what Patrick said about Daisuke's lack of quad in the short. (I am sure Daisuke himself wished he could include a quad from the short too.) He was using it as an example to express his newly found love of quad, right?

    As SkateFiguring tried to demonstrate upthread, Patrick's friendliness and consideration towards others come across more clearly if you watch his interaction with other skaters. I recall seeing Patrick picking up a Japanese flag thrown in by Japanese fans and bringing it to Daisuke during the winner's run at the 2010 Worlds. It was a very sweet moment.

    Japanese skaters are spared from much scrutiny from the media and fans alike, because they are unable to speak English fluently enough to be controversial, I reckon. Also I heard they are media-trained by the JSF - it's a cultural thing, a little slip of the tongue could cost a lot in Japanese society... Miki in her teenage years suffered from that to some extent.

    Sometimes, I wish Japanese skaters can be more expressive of their opinions and feelings. (Not that I am implying they are constantly biting their tongue though.) So I find young Yuzuru's outward competitiveness rather refreshing. Mind you, at the same time, I also find Daisuke's almost un-athlete-like sweetness adorable too. If you like certain skaters, you always find the way of liking whatever they do and say any away, and the opposite is also true. (In a Japanese proverb, we say 'if you hate a Buddhist monk, you end up hating his vestment too.')

    One thing that bothered me a little is Patrick's comment quoted in this article.

    "My main focus is to do what I have to do when I get on the ice. As a skater, as an athlete you don't focus on the audience. I'm just going to go and focus on my quads and my triple Axels."
    What I really want Patrick to achieve is a combination of quads and triple axels AND level 4 step sequence. My quick search showed this was done only three times in the ISU competitions (GPS & championships) in the history of CoP, and only two skaters ever achieved it. Patrick is capable of becoming the third man, and I would love him to.

    Finally, OT, but am I the only one who is missing super-confident Brian Joubert? So much so that I don't mind handing over the Worlds gold medal to him to pick up his confidence again!
    Last edited by mot; 04-23-2011 at 06:23 PM.

  14. #59
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mot View Post
    Japanese skaters are spared from much scrutiny from the media and fans alike, because they are unable to speak English fluently enough to be controversial, I reckon. Also I heard they are media-trained by the JSF - it's a cultural thing, a little slip of the tongue could cost a lot in Japanese society... Miki in her teenage years suffered from that to some extent.

    Sometimes, I wish Japanese skaters can be more expressive of their opinions and feelings.

    Maybe that is why Miki leaned to speak English

    This "Japanese skater" seems to be more than expressive enough.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENQb4iTUelA

    If Patrick made a few of these comments he would have been crucified.

    In Mirai's case she was called cute and adorable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    Maybe that is why Miki leaned to speak English
    Spot on! That's exactly what Miki says! She says she can express herself more freely in English, and I feel the same too. Even though her and my command of English is no where near that of our mother tongue.

    As for Mirai... yes, prejudice / preconception of who they are do apply. If someone is already considered to be cute and adrable, whatever they say sounds cute and adrable too. And she is!

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