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Thread: The American Ladies Leading Up To Sochi.

  1. #76
    Down With It
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    In a slight defense of Nagasu- just because she isn't getting it done at 17/18 doesn't mean she won't get it done at 20 or 21 (assuming she stays that long).

    That said, I understand the frustration- I'm feeling it myself as well, as you could probably tell by some of my previous posts. We want someone to step up to the plate and it just isn't happening. It's funny how instead of a new generation taking over, we have a champion in an old-timer who's been around since the Kwan/Cohen days. I still think it is too early to tell whether we TRULY have a Czisny 2.0, but we will know after next week.

  2. #77
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    She may be eighteen, but I'll never dance with another (oooh).

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robeye View Post
    Again, just fitting the data using Mk.1 eyeballs, a notion that strikes me is that Mirai's career trajectory more closely resembles Sasha's, another skater from whom much was expected early, but who did not win her first senior titles until she was around 18, and never won an international championship.
    I guess I am one of those rare individuals who still consider the senior Grand Prix Final to be an "international championship".

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    She may be eighteen, but I'll never dance with another (oooh).
    When you saw her skating there......yeah, yeah, yeah

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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    I guess I am one of those rare individuals who still consider the senior Grand Prix Final to be an "international championship".
    While I'm personally somewhat sympathetic with this point of view, the proof, as they say, is in the pudding. By this I mean that, if the GPF really did satisfy the mainstream notion of a "true" champion (particularly in the U.S., where both society at large as well as the skating community continue to live by the Lombardi credo that winning is "the only thing"), then Alissa would now currently be "IT", she will have already satisfied the public as well as herself, and would be feted, I think, in a much more grandiose way than she currently is. Instead of the many conversations on whether she's going to blow up at Worlds, there would be many more benign, indulgent missives electronically wafting her way. The scale of importance that is applied in plotting GPF vs. Worlds vs. Olys is logarithmic, in the eyes of most.

    As I said, I personally think you have a point. The GPF field may be a restricted one, but so is the year-ending ATP World Finals in tennis (in which the top 8 players are invited), which is informally considered the "fifth Major" of that sport, and is arguably closer in importance to, say, the Australian Open for the tennis public at large, than the GPF is to Worlds.

    Sadly, I find myself unable to impose on hoi polloi ("hoi" being the rough equivalent of the English "the". Not to be confused with the equally English "Oi!", or the Yiddish "Oy!") this eminently reasonable point of view by simple fiat.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robeye View Post
    The GPF field may be a restricted one, .........
    Yes, the Final is restricted. But how many ladies try to GET to the Final?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robeye View Post
    Sadly, I find myself unable to impose on hoi polloi...
    Today I withdrew some money from the ATM machine.

    Pan-specific. Pan-specific. I love it. (I don't know what it means, but I love it).

    You are a professional scholarly writer, right?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    Yes, the Final is restricted. But how many ladies try to GET to the Final?
    I'm actually in substantial agreement with you, which I thought was fairly clear in that paragraph . But I was just observing that we're like a couple of lonely wolves baying at the moon.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    Yes, the Final is restricted. But how many ladies try to GET to the Final?
    The ones with the 3A and some with 3x3, and others with lyrical ballet arms. That's the story of Ladies in general. Without one of those mentioned, all is lost. Not even a contract with a travelling ice show without auditioning.

    I'm a big fan of the GPs, and I would like to see at least two more in the GPF but I would prefer to see two sets of groups for the Finals so maybe 4 more. At the beginning of the season the skaters will be ready or not. Those ready will have shown 6 good programs like the sportspeople they are. Those not ready, will have a lot of extra makeup training to do.

  10. #85
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    Two more would be enough for two groups.

    I'd prefer a massive restructuring of the GP season, actually, but that's something different.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Two more would be enough for two groups.

    I'd prefer a massive restructuring of the GP season, actually, but that's something different.
    Well, there are a number of structures that do need attention. No fan is interested in talking shop, until after the Worlds but keep it in mind. It's a sporty competition without the Glitz of Nats and Worlds.

  12. #87
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    I think 2 groups of 6 in each discipline would work well.

  13. #88
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    10 entries for the Singles events and then 8 for Pairs and Dance would be ideal, if it were to be expanded at all. More than that makes it less prestigious. The total score from the earlier Grand Prix events should determine entries as well; placements are a bad primary qualifier considering how unbalanced the precursor events can be in terms of depth of field.

  14. #89
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    ^ I like placements because that method elevates each individual Grand Prix event to the status of something worth winning in its own right, never mind the finals.

    The original idea of the "Champions Series" was that the winners of the six events would meet at the end for a grand shootout of champions. Of course, if a competitor won more than one event, then you had fill out the field with second-place finishers.

    As for easy or hard fields, the total point method has problems, too. Besides the differences between stingy and generous officiating panels, in addition the scores seem to rise as the season progresses -- both because the performers skate better and also because of gradual grade inflation over the course of the season.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robeye View Post
    While I'm personally somewhat sympathetic with this point of view, the proof, as they say, is in the pudding. By this I mean that, if the GPF really did satisfy the mainstream notion of a "true" champion (particularly in the U.S., where both society at large as well as the skating community continue to live by the Lombardi credo that winning is "the only thing"), then Alissa would now currently be "IT", she will have already satisfied the public as well as herself, and would be feted, I think, in a much more grandiose way than she currently is. ...
    She was in a commercial shown on the Super Bowl ... and the US think highly of the commercials at that particular event. So, even thought that might not "be `IT'", it is much closer to a respectable imitation than simply having a little bit on an ordinary car advertisement.

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