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Thread: What is "heart?"

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    I agree with your thoughts here but to be honest, for me it feels like you are describing what I would call a "soulful" or emotional performance. I agree with what you say as it pertains to performing or entertainment.

    But not so sure if it describes heart in a sporting or competitive sense.

    If we think of Alissa's skating some find it beautiful or elegant or even soulful at times. But there are always those that question her heart.

    Are they questioning Alissa's abilty to emote or her abilty to handle pressure?

    There is a difference. If one poster thinks Yuna skated a beautiful exhibition program I would agree. But in a sporting sense it was not about showing heart, as in being competitive. It is about something totally different.

    There seems to be performing with heart/soul and then again something much different which is competing with heart.

    Are there examples of skaters who have shown both in the same program? Since skating is a sport with artistic components there should be quite a few examples.

    For starters I think of Chen-Lu from the 1998 Olympics.

    Exhibition programs don't count as they are non-competitive
    This highlights one of the quandaries in using "heart" in relation to a performance; it's used liberally and often in both ways, as an attempt to describe some artistic quality as well as in illustrating a sporting one, and I quite agree with you on the necessity of making a distinction. And in either case, it comes freighted with a heavy, mixed load of associations from daily situational use. It's one of those pan-specific (a lovely, clumsy, seemingly oxymoronic term that actually has a specific scientific meaning ) words that often result in our talking past each other.

    "Heart" as a sporting quality is perhaps more communally understood, enshrined in the immortal song from "Damn Yankees", which I'll attempt to define as a kind of gritty, never-say-die gumption. But the fact that heart is most often applied to (or sung by) the "lovable losers", to use the sympathetic but slightly patronizing term, is in some ways revealing. Sporting heart tends to be recognized less in victory than in defeat, as a trope for a willingness to fight on against adversity. But champions fight against obstacles, too (whether outer or inner), although in some cases the very magnitude of their success can mask how arduous it really was.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robeye View Post
    "Heart" as a sporting quality is perhaps more communally understood, enshrined in the immortal song from "Damn Yankees", which I'll attempt to define as a kind of gritty, never-say-die gumption. But the fact that heart is most often applied to (or sung by) the "lovable losers", to use the sympathetic but slightly patronizing term, is in some ways revealing. Sporting heart tends to be recognized less in victory than in defeat, as a trope for a willingness to fight on against adversity. But champions fight against obstacles, too (whether outer or inner), although in some cases the very magnitude of their success can mask how arduous it really was.
    Interestings thoughts.

    In Vancouver I would say Yuna showed "the heart of a champion." But she was the favorite and expected to win.


    Joannie Rochette also showed "heart" as she skated carrying what must have been overwhelming grief.

    We don't have to try and measure or compare this because that would be more about our perceptions.

    Paul Wylie showed heart capturing Silver back at the '92 Olympics.

    In my own experience I think of heart in sports as having little to do with emoting to the audience and more about how a skater or athlete competed. Others feel differently particularly about skating.

    Michelle's last WC is the one where I think she showed the most heart. Others might think it was just like the other championships she won.
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-21-2011 at 11:49 AM.

  3. #18
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    "Heart" is the most useless element needed to call forth Captain Planet and save the planet from eco terrorism.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JeLcP7Xa5o

    Skaters would do better to have fire in their performances.

  4. #19
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    [QUOTE=Blades of Passion;561034Skaters would do better to have fire in their performances.[/QUOTE]




    Are you referring to that part of the CoP categorized as P/E? Or IN ?

    Does every performance require the same degree of fire?

    Did Alissa need more fire when she was skating to "the Swan" or would too much fire seem out of place with that music?

    I thought Yuna showed more fire skating to Scherazade than to the Gershwin concerto. Different types of music require different styles of interpretation and emoting.

    But I think I agree with your point.
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-21-2011 at 12:37 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    "Heart" is the most useless element needed to call forth Captain Planet and save the planet from eco terrorism.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JeLcP7Xa5o

    Skaters would do better to have fire in their performances.
    Oh man, that was a lip trembler!

    Fire in a skate can be represented in many forms, from barely controllable frenzy, to a teasingly banked flame to a dimming sorrow. I agree, I can't think of any artistically memorable performance that didn't have it in one incarnation or another.

  6. #21
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    For me, Michelle's skating wasn't so much about "heart" as she wasn't an emotional skater. Angela Nikodinov skated with heart. Michelle was born to skate - like Kurt Browning was born to skate. The best non skating example is Michael Jordon. I wouldn't say he played with "heart" but his talent and competitive nature gave the appearance of bringing something different, something emotional to the court when it actuality, he was just better than you. Did she bring passion? Yes. Did she make you cry? Yes. But heart? I don't think so and I agree with Toni on this one - Michelle Kwan was about the win. There's a reason her best free skates and most golds came when she was down - she was trying to kick your butt.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife View Post
    Did she make you cry? Yes. But heart? I don't think so and I agree with Toni on this one - Michelle Kwan was about the win. There's a reason her best free skates and most golds came when she was down - she was trying to kick your butt.
    I kind of agree even as the opposite of what you said could be true depending on our pov.

    Making me cry by the way one skates feels all about IN and emoting or even some special circumstances surrounding the skater or family.

    Your last thought, "she was trying to kick your butt" feels exactly to me like a skater or athlete with a competitive heart. EXACTLY what separated Mike from most other players. The guy HATED to LOSE.

    The will to win is not something a coach or choreographer can teach. It comes from inside, not from Lori's choreo but from right about where the "heart" is located.

    Maybe think of it as "competitive fire" but I am sure some US fans wish that whatever Michelle had we could see more of it in Mirai and Alissa at times.
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-21-2011 at 05:28 PM.

  8. #23
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    To me it's an emotional investment in whatever you are performing whether it be acting, singing, dancing, skating, even painting. I think as far as skating is concerned, one performance that showed "heart" and "soul" was Eman's "Purple Rain" a few years back. I'm sure there are people who would disagree wholeheartedly, but that's how I see it.
    Last edited by Ravensque; 04-21-2011 at 05:03 PM.

  9. #24
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    This is heart.

    She has heart here too in an earlier different situation, from the beautiful performance to the reaction to her marks.

  10. #25
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    Is there really a difference between having heart and doing choreography really well? Between drawing in the audience and merely performing the program that you practiced? Is “emotional involvement” something that the audience supplies out of its imagination, rather than anything the skater does?
    I think, if a skater cares for what he is doing no matter what are the chances to win, how many audience are watching or what are the circumstances, that is having a heart. Thus it is important for skater, but the audience may not feel it and it is not about drawing in the audience.
    I think many of the skaters who are not medal contenders, I mean, people that are not from 1st or 2nd group, have a heart, but may not have developed artistic abilities or memorable choreography.

    On the past Olympic games, I think, all 3 ladies medalists had a heart, but I can't say the same about men. But maybe I'm not sensitive for them.

    For me this is a good example of performance with heart: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA87sgaG9L8

    But, since there is no exact definition of what it is and there is no way to know it, I think everyone can be right.

  11. #26
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    An example this season, in my opinion, would be Sarah Meier's LP at Euros. You could tell she put everything out there, and the way she broke into tears at the end made me teary-eyed.

  12. #27
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    An example this season, in my opinion, would be Sarah Meier's LP at Euros. You could tell she put everything out there, and the way she broke into tears at the end made me teary-eyed.
    Very good example. I was happy for her.

  13. #28
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    Posters above seem to be calling on performances of particular skaters as having heart in their skating. That's not the definition of "HEART". Skaters who do more than the accepted CoP performance will show an AMAZING performance.

    HEART is strictly a Belief in oneself to Winning a Championship. Maybe you'll recall the musical Damn Yankees with the hit tune of Ya Gotta Have Heart (to believe in beating the Yankees).

    Ryan and Alissa both need that gotta have Heart (belief in themselves) to win their championships with an amazing performance. They are not the odds on favorites. In fact, with the exception of Dai, Chan, Nobi, and Taka can Ryan have the heart to win? and with the exceptional talents of Mao and Yuna can Alissa have the heart to win? Let's hope so and with amazing performances.

  14. #29
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    HEART is strictly a Belief in oneself to Winning


    Cruel people sure do have a lot of heart, then!

  15. #30
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    Repeat "Heart is a Belief in Onself" to get better when ill; to heal when injured; to conquer fears, etc. etc. It does not have anything to do with the viewers' emotional feelings of a performance unless they are searching for a word to describe their feelings, and using heart. Athletes compete to win or plan their competitive career thusly.
    It has everything to do with competitors Winning a Championship.

    The heart of the matter is in the points of the CoP. I just don't see it in the athletes. However, there is the Will to Win in a performance, and that is obvious. (My style is better than yours cried the skater to himself)

    The entire performance of a skater in the LP is in the heart of the music, and not in the 20% the CoP gives it. That is what may affect the Skater, and also a fan.

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