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Thread: What is "heart?"

  1. #61
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    ^^^^t
    First of all, the heart business is having the WILL TO WIN.

    Michelle showed that by her executing the top tricks of the time. She did not show the essence of the character. At her age and the same could be said for little girs, showing a sexual awakening is super difficult even beyond the puberty. Salome was NOT Carmen. That's an important differnce between showing the character in a story. If a skater insists on doing that.

    I don't expect Michelle or any girl to understand that. Little girls mimic artists. (I know, it's cute) What Michelle did and I would hope any Lady skater would do is to be one with the music, which she was. That's all about performing with music in any artistic endeavour.

  2. #62
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    I made several posts that agree with you.

    But mathman rephrased the question/topic to this:

    "What is the difference between "wearing your heart on your sleeve" and "performing your choreography in a convincing fashion."

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    ^^^^t
    First of all, the heart business is having the WILL TO WIN.
    That's also how I understood the comments at the time. Showing heart as a matter of being brave and ready to fight with everything you've got. You could argue that all skaters want to win - but in some instances skaters can ignite the whole room with their energy levels. Kwan had it, Yagudin had it.Not all the time - but enough times to be revered and remembered. Revolutionary Etude still makes me gasp for breath.

  4. #64
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    "Tosca" was just mentioned. Would you say Michelle is showing more "heart" here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWQSoIEAxns

    or during "Salome" when she was much younger?
    Tosca. "You think you can beat me? Beat this!"

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The question I really wanted to ask -- and this should have been the title of the thread -- was "What is the difference between "wearing your heart on your sleeve" and "performing your choreography in a convincing fashion."

    I am OK with all the interesting twists and turns the thread had taken, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ I agree with everything you said. And also with your first two posts on this thread.

    To tell the truth, I think think the most genuine emotion comes from the youngest performers, not the most mature. The kids whose sole theme is "look what I can do!"

    I like that better than dying swans flopping about on the ice.
    I see. Not I've got what you are trying to bring to our attention. Sorry, I have been missing the point...

    However, I still think mature skaters can also do as much. The three performances this season, that moved me most by transparency of the skaters' genuine emotions and their will to show all they've got, are:

    Shawn Sawyer FS @ Canadiaon Nats
    Daisuke Takahashi FS @ Japan Nats
    Faiella / Scali FD @ Euros

    The last two were technically flawed, but the intensity of the emotions contained in the performances was simply phenomenal, I thought. When finished watching, I was gasping for air.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    I made several posts that agree with you.

    But mathman rephrased the question/topic to this:

    "What is the difference between "wearing your heart on your sleeve" and "performing your choreography in a convincing fashion."
    Mmm...

    a. You can perform choreography in a great (yet introvert way)
    => eg Salome

    b. You can perform choreography in a not so great but extravert way.
    => eg Slutskaya (forgive me for this)

    c. You can perform a choreography in a great, extravert way.
    => eg Aranjuez

    d. You can perform a choreography in a not so great and introvert way (in which case you'd better stayed at home)

    e. You can perform a choreography in a great, yet (über)fake/-stylised way.

    I can enjoy a and c equally well. b can be enjoyable, as well as pitifull.
    d and e are horrific.

    The preferences are subjective...as always.

  7. #67
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    I really don't know what he is driving at. Music comes first and dance came a minute later in evolutionary time; choreography came with the advent of musical theatre. one can not separate the two although I would accept a squad of soldiers parading to a cadence beat. Hip Hop moves to a cadence, and it certainly wears it heart on the Hoppers sleaves. It does have the musical beat and timing but lacks the tonal one finds in the musical scales.

    I do believe when skaters are moving to music, they are doing it to win a championship, or at least making a name for themselves. That's the point of the competition. The idea that showing heart while skating if it means adding something extra special to a choreographed routine is most useful to winning a championship. That's where the nuances come into play - not the mimicing of a story but how the music is making the skater react to it.

  8. #68
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    First of all, the heart business is having the WILL TO WIN.
    That's a pretty narrow definition. I think heart is more like the desire to share something wonderful with others. A great performer wants to share their exhuberance with the audience. Having the will to win would be better defined as determination.

  9. #69
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    I like that definition, SF. The actress Tyne Daly once said that although breath control is thought of as how the actor controls his/her own breath, she felt that breath control consisted of this: "I control when the audience stops breathing, and I control when they start breathing again." I've seen skating programs like that, and I bet all of you have, too, or you wouldn't be in this forum.

  10. #70
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagudinah View Post
    That's also how I understood the comments at the time. Showing heart as a matter of being brave and ready to fight with everything you've got. You could argue that all skaters want to win - but in some instances skaters can ignite the whole room with their energy levels. Kwan had it, Yagudin had it.Not all the time - but enough times to be revered and remembered. Revolutionary Etude still makes me gasp for breath.
    are you from Belgium ? The second fs fan I met from Flandre!

  11. #71
    Rinkside
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    Well...it's not a skating mad country unfortunately... I'm proud today: Jorik through, Ira through...with a bit of luck they'll even get a line or 2 in the newspapers

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagudinah View Post
    Well...it's not a skating mad country unfortunately... I'm proud today: Jorik through, Ira through...with a bit of luck they'll even get a line or 2 in the newspapers

    Alas, that's a line or two more than our skaters will get in our newspapers, even if they medal. Sigh. At least if you're European, you don't have far to travel to reach a skating-mad country and watch a competition sometime. Good luck to your skaters this week! Hope they do their personal best.

  13. #73
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Elvis Stojko comes to mind when I think of a skater with "heart." Elvis gave his all when he skated - even when injured he could rise to the occasion. Elvis was a "skater's skater." One of the signs of a great skater is one who leaves his mark on the sport of figure skating and raises the bar for other skaters. Elvis certainly did this by becoming the first "Quad King."

  14. #74
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    Yes, Lad. I still remember watching Elvis skate in that world championship--94 or 95--when he was injured. Breathtaking.

    And heart is also Daisuke Takahashi.

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