- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Then the 3T would be the lowest valued jump in his SP.
2011-2012 Program Stuff
- Thread starter ImaginaryPogue
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
^^^^^ You got me there!
I was thinking of a quad combo as a unit, one of the required elements.
I was thinking of a quad combo as a unit, one of the required elements.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
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The only thing I read about the Bonus credit, is that it must be innovative. All the permitted jumps have their own base values and goes included in the score. An extra air roation is still the same jump which gets a base value plus.
How about a Flying Quad camel spins?
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
I dont think KVDP or anyone else has been credited a quad /quad combo yet, unless I missed the note
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Not only does the second and/or third jump of a combo receive no GOE, its imperfection can drag down the positive GOE of the well executed first jump. E.g. A good guad on its own may get +2, but a guad of the same quality combined with a not so great triple or even another quad will likely get less in GOE. Thus, the subsequent jump(s) of a combo may incur negative GOE but never a positeve grade to add to the element.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Nobody has landed a 4-4, and few skaters have landed more than one type of quad.
I dont think KVDP or anyone else has been credited a quad /quad combo yet, unless I missed the note
Maybe before debating whether skaters should do a 4S or a 4F in the SP, we should wait for them to actually land either jump in competition? Because last I checked, the 4F has not yet been landed, and I can think of maybe five active skaters who've done a 4S in international competition, and only one of them has done it more than once.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
^
Let me guess the one, Miki ANdo???
See, I was thinking of answering that with "the reigning world champion", because that would have been fun. And at least four others... maybe more, while I was busy with other things?
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
People are rehashing the suggested rule change that was voted down last year that jump combos get a 10% bonus to account for the fact that doing a jump in combo is harder than solo.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
Under the current scoring system, it wouldn't be worth the amount of energy expended. The entry is "only" worth 1 level on the spin if it's considered a difficult entry.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
It's innovative and should get a bonus as much as anything else being rehashed.Under the current scoring system, it wouldn't be worth the amount of energy expended. The entry is "only" worth 1 level on the spin if it's considered a difficult entry.
Oh how some fans see only what is considered simple? A Flying Quad Camel has never been seen in figure skating, and it frightens those who have no name in skating, and want to win a competition without difficulty.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Hoo you talkin 'bout?
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
OK, so you get a one point bonus for doing something innovative IF the tech panel decides it is different enough. How much risk is there to trying whatever it is you are exactly suggesting that this element actual is? How much energy has been expended? Will the skater have enough energy left to complete all their other elements? If you decide to put this mythical element at the end, does the skater have enough energy left to complete it nicely so they don't get a no level spin called or such a poor GOE that the element is worth practically nothing?
The scoring system as it stands is set up that risks have to be calculated such that the skaters' scoring opportunities are maximized while mitigating as much risk as possible. This is why, much to many fans disappointment, Yuna has axed the 3Lo out of her program (risk >> reward for her), Mao had axed the 3Lz, 3T and 3S at various times, why limited pairs teams have actually attempted the 3ATh, why the flying layback spin has had limited run by just a few skaters, and why there has been very little innovation under IJS (go with what you are sure you can do that gets the points). That was why few men did quads between 2007-10 - risk-reward. Until such time that the scoring system changes (again) so that risk is applauded and quantified and scored even if it's less than perfect, the chances of getting anything really innovative or new out there is really low.
You can make snide comments all you like about me, I am asking you the questions that you would need to ask yourself if you were to create this mythical quad flying camel and attempt to put it in a program. :sheesh:
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
He's talking about ME because I asked him a question about his mythical new spin and he didn't like it....
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Heh. You rational admirer of figure skating, you. Meaningless speculation is what the internet is for!!!!!
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Buttercup said:
^
Let me guess the one, Miki ANdo???
Kevin Reynolds did it 3 times with positive GOE just last season, twice at SC including a combo, and at TEB.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Fernandez and Brezina at Worlds. Joubert's done it before too.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
I like surprises, like when Brezina and Fernandez did their quads at Worlds - and it was the first time for Brezina to land any quad, let alone two different ones! Hypothetical quads can't beat that...Yes, Joubert at 2006 CoR but not since (he also did it at the French Masters that year) - I guess injuries caught up with him, he's been dealing with medical issues on and off for several years now. IIRC, he did try a couple of times but popped it. I always thought he should try 4F instead, even with an edge call it would be worth a lot of points. Brezina could definitely do 4F, with the height he gets on the triple. I do sometimes worry about that boy's knees, though.
Thus, for now, I believe Reynolds is the only active skater to have landed different quads multiple times in international competition.
Speaking of Joubert, and programs, he's reportedly keeping the LP.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Well, you seem totally wrapped up in the CoP, and will not allow any form of innovation (mythical or not). Unless, of course you believe it is innovated to change a defined jump by its rotation only. It's still the same jump by definition.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
I believe Lori likely choregraphed Patrick's new exhibition program Moondance with some elements of the new LP so he can be practising them during the summer show tours. I'm particularly intrigued by the jump combo with a half loop (better ssen in this video) and the jump from a kneeling position.
