Will Russian coaches be forced to "drop" their foreign students? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Will Russian coaches be forced to "drop" their foreign students?

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Dodhiyel, I think they might say "yes" because they've already invested a lot into moving to Russia and would lose more by cutting ties there yet again.
 

Dodhiyel

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Yes, Ptichka, I completely agree that they would not want to cut ties there, especially Sasha Zhulin.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
It's possible that the leadership might "suggest" that Russian coaches (the ones based in Russia, anyway) circle the wagons for the purpose of getting the national team in the best shape for Sochi. This is a--oh, I hesitate to use the loaded term "three-year plan"--that has a specific goal for a specific date in the near future. Some coaches might see that it is a service to their country of limited duration and so it would have different implications from just changing over forever to a nationalistic approach to training. If coaches do agree to do this, it wouldn't be wonderful but it would be understandable. But after Sochi, whatever happens there (and I'm sure the Russians will shine, given their commitment, their basic excellence, and the home-court advantage), I hope Russian coaches and skaters will once again become citizens of the world. The time for tribal skating is past, and it confers no advantage on any country. After all, look at what training with Western choreographers did for Shen and Zhao. Hybrid vigor really does lead to greater strength, and not just in agriculture.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
The pressure on some Russian coaches to drop their foreign students isn't coming from within the Russian figure skating circle directly. Given the nature of public funding for this sport in Russia, my belief that is this push towards dropping foreign skaters is a misguided idea that somehow Russian coaches still have an exclusivity on the excellence of this sport in all disciplines, which is simply not the case anymore. Those who believe this could work are still living in the past, as if they were still in the USSR.

Looking at the current World Medalists in Singles who will all compete in Moscow except Lepisto who is out due to an injury, none of them has a Russian coach. Asada is coached by a Japanese. Kim is coached by an American and previously, from a Canadian for many years. Lepisto's coach is Finnish. Takahashi trains in Japan and coached by Japanese. Chan is coached by a combination of American and Canadian coaches. Joubert is trained by French coach in France. Russian single skating are no where near the top in the world right now and the men are especially poor. So what's the point of forcing Morozov to abandon Miki Ando and would he do it given the nature of their relationship? But assume Morozov is forced to turn Ando away, she will easily find another very competent coach in her homeland or North America, without a doubt. There is no shortage of quality coaches in Single skating in Japan.

In Pairs Skating, which is Russia's best discipline right now, the competitions comes from strong tradition of Pair Skating in both Germany and China, each of them have their own legacy of legendary coaches and sports machine to produce very competitive Pair Skaters. China's Harbin training compound produce successive and successful pair teams, replacing those who retired or about to retire. Age controversy aside, the expected impact of Russia limiting export of coaches to China is about zero. Should the Germans and the Chinese continue all the way to Sochi, it is quite possible that Russia may find itself again kept off the podium in Pairs Skating.

In Ice Dance, the two Russian born coaches of Zueva/Shpilband have turned down going back to Russia. Why should they? Shpilband is a defector from USSR, that alone says it all about how he feels towards Russia. In any event, he is pretty proud of his US citizenship. Zueva is now Canadian. Neither of these coaches have any serious ties with Russia and their only prominent Russian team is actually Zueva's son who was never able to make a name for himself in this sport. There is simply no shortage of good coaches from France and elsewhere. Again, would this policy improve Russia's chance at the podium 2014, the answer is most certainly no, absolutely not.
 
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Neda

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
This all is tsunami in the cup of water. It was Mishin who decided to concentrate on Gachinsky and Tuktamysheva till Sochi and even close his summer camps because foreign students distract him from the “main projects”. Then he call to other Russian coaches to do the same. Not only to “drop foreigners” but to work specifically with one or two students and give them as much time as possible. Morozov said “yes”, Zhulin said “no”. That's all. Neither government nor skating federation have real leverage to such self-minded, rather famous and financially independent persons.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
This all is tsunami in the cup of water. It was Mishin who decided to concentrate on Gachinsky and Tuktamysheva till Sochi and even close his summer camps because foreign students distract him from the “main projects”. Then he call to other Russian coaches to do the same. Not only to “drop foreigners” but to work specifically with one or two students and give them as much time as possible. Morozov said “yes”, Zhulin said “no”. That's all. Neither government nor skating federation have real leverage to such self-minded, rather famous and financially independent persons.

Sorry, that's not consistent with what I heard at all.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Joe, I think the two coaches we're specifically talking about here are Morozov and Zhulin. Would it be possible for all of their non-Russian students to find other coaches? Certainly. Would it be detrimental to the sport of figure skating? Undebiably so.
Sorry Ptichka about confusing the issue. I still think the Soviet system was better than that of the Republic's. i do not have any problem with skaters changing coaches wherever that takes them. Changing coaches is not as common in Russia, akaik, but it in the USA.

It's difficult to compare skaters with natural ability with those who do not have that ability.
Miki Ando has natural spring in her jumps; and Evgeni has natural air rotations. I believe either one of them would not lose those blessings if they were to go to other coaches.

My concern is whether the natural abilities of certain skaters stand in the way of those skaters without?
If scores are being raised for body contortions in spinning, Rachael Flat is out of luck; if a skate is prone to have 'stage freight', changing a coach will not help. If skaters do not have a sense of music, I doubt anyone can help that skaters, and body types play a big roll as Mischin pointed out. So much is natural abilities. Yet skaters will change coaches for something that just isn't there to begin with. If TT got Yagudin a gold medal, she must do the same for me attitude. I don't think it works that way. Alexi had natural talent before he went to TT. What she did was to iron out the wrinkles in his skating, and gave him good practice advice. That is worth a change of coach, as Jeremy went to Sato/Dungeon.

I'm not big on Zhulin for bringing Abt down; and I think Morozov kills his male pupils with silly choreo.
 

nylynnr

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
This all is tsunami in the cup of water. It was Mishin who decided to concentrate on Gachinsky and Tuktamysheva till Sochi and even close his summer camps because foreign students distract him from the “main projects”. Then he call to other Russian coaches to do the same. Not only to “drop foreigners” but to work specifically with one or two students and give them as much time as possible. Morozov said “yes”, Zhulin said “no”. That's all. Neither government nor skating federation have real leverage to such self-minded, rather famous and financially independent persons.

Agreed. But which important Russian students will Morozov take on?
 

skfan

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
This all is tsunami in the cup of water. It was Mishin who decided to concentrate on Gachinsky and Tuktamysheva till Sochi and even close his summer camps because foreign students distract him from the “main projects”. Then he call to other Russian coaches to do the same. Not only to “drop foreigners” but to work specifically with one or two students and give them as much time as possible. Morozov said “yes”, Zhulin said “no”. That's all. Neither government nor skating federation have real leverage to such self-minded, rather famous and financially independent persons.

please correct me if i'm mis-understanding you, but...

morozov said yes to ... coming to russia, but not to dropping miki, right? or are you saying that he is dropping miki? wallylutz uses the phrase, 'the nature of their relationship' but it's been said that she's dating javier now, so...

miki-javier may be questionable hearsay, but it's been publicly said that she is taking next year off.

are we to read between the lines and conclude that she's taking a year to find another coach, since morozov will now only concentrate on russian students? in any case, didn't elene gedenashvilli recently switch to him--she's not russian russian. unless she's filling the girlfriend-excemption slot? ^_^
 
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Neda

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Sorry, that's not consistent with what I heard at all.
I'm not sure my English is good enough to prove something and I doubt that links to Russian articles may be much useful for you. So let it be just my private humble opinion. I made it by logical conclusions reading many interviews. But look. Suggestion that Russian coaches are under some great pressure has only one argument: "I learned from a trusted source that Alexander Zhulin is almost ordered to stop working with the French ice dancers". It's not the fact, it's just a gossip "from a trusted source" who may have million personal reasons to say this. It's obvious that this "trusted source" is not Zhulin himself. I've read his interview few days ago and he answered the same question about French pair. He said that he never intends to refuse from them, it was in calm and reasonable tone, and he didn't sound like a man who was just ordered to drop his students. Really, I don't see enough facts in this article to rise such storm. I'm sure that Morozov can decide himself.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
^yes he is.

I heard V/T will go to train with him from next season. For now he has choreographed their programs.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
^Huh? their Coach is Nina Mozer.
Stanislav is a coach assistant since they stopped skating together. I think they are not married but a couple.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Seniorita, they are married. You are correct, though, that Stanislav is just an assistant.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
^ I missed the wedding invitation! :p I saw them last year in KOI off ice and I thought they were just a couple, I didnt know, I m sorry!
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
In Pairs Skating, which is Russia's best discipline right now, the competitions comes from strong tradition of Pair Skating in both Germany and China, each of them have their own legacy of legendary coaches and sports machine to produce very competitive Pair Skaters. China's Harbin training compound produce successive and successful pair teams, replacing those who retired or about to retire. Age controversy aside, the expected impact of Russia limiting export of coaches to China is about zero. Should the Germans and the Chinese continue all the way to Sochi, it is quite possible that Russia may find itself again kept off the podium in Pairs Skating.

Germany has done pretty well in pairs, they have had hot and cold spells. China OTOH just came on the scene in 1999 winning the first world gold medal and has only has three good pairs; S/Z, P/T and Z/Z, all with the same coach. If Sui doesn't out grow her partner they may last until Sochi but I'm guessing she will need a new partner. S/Z are gone, the Zhangs (if they come back) will never be on the world podium again, I'm, guessing 5th or 6th at best if they do come back. P/T aren't sure of they are staying after worlds or not so their heart can't be in it for much longer so China's well is running dry.

At the last Olympics, the best team Russia had were only together less then 4 year, now they are all better with the exception of V/T who are a new team with a great past.


I heard V/T will go to train with him from next season. For now he has choreographed their programs.

Morozov is not the new coach of V/T, Moser is the head coach with Stas Morosov (Tanya's former partner) N. Morosov helps them with elements but he does that with many people who either ask for his help or he just offers it :laugh:

I don't know if he does it to be nice or if it's his ego so he can say he was a part of a winning skaters win :confused: I really don't know.

Isn't Volosozhar married to her coach?

No they are not married she just calls him her husband instead of her boyfriend. Kind of weird but whatever. :think:
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I know Morozov is not their coach now, I think I said who is their coach, I only said I read they are moving to Morozov 's group from next season. For now he doesnt help them only with elements, he has choreo their programs, their exhibition and long program for sure.
 

Possum Glider

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
^First name John. Last name Guerreiro. Citizen of Australia. Skates for Russia.

John has pretty much rennouced his birth in Australia as somewhat of an accident while his parents where working there. Curtisy of his Russian born mother he is Russian and enjoys the full financial support of the the Russian Federation which is far more then he would receive if he remained Australian. He is Russian so therefore uneffected by the decission which doesn't really affect him as he is fully funded traing in the US.
 
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