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Thread: Preliminary Round Men

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    I compared Kozuka's QR LP with his season best from TEB. The programs are identically laid out. His TES BV (78.44 vs 81.54) is lower due to the UR 4T, but other than 4T and 3Lo, his GOEs for other elements are around the same or a little better than at TEB, ending up with a 88 vs 89.63 at TEB. His PCS, however is 77 vs 80.80 from TEB so he only broke the 80 mark once.

    Without seeing the performance, it's hard to tell if the variation, especially the PCS, is due to his performance or the judging, to give us an idea of how the judging may go in general, strict or generous.

    Maybe they try to balance out the Special Ice bonus. However, the GOEs don't suggest that. It's the Tech Panel that lowered his TES.

    Kozuka, however, may still bring his best in the real competition.

    .
    After seeing Kozuka's performance, I would say, for a similar FS in the LP, he will get higher PCS. This routine was "almost" as good as it gets, he has not looked tired at all towards the end and his last jumps looked as easy as the first ones in the first minute. Except the quad, there is not much he may improve on this program, as far as execution is concerned. I would say he could get between 3-5 points more in total, would he skate like this in the last group in the competition.

    My assumptrion is the judges had no reason to throw out those high generous PCS at this stage of the competition. What for? To make him beat down the field with not 28, but 31 points? Who cares?

  2. #62
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    The tech panel nailed him. The judges' scores were then automatic. So his quad is worth less than a 3T (4.10). The PCS listed were thrown out as the lowest so his PCS came in at 65, averaging 6.5 per component. His personal best PCS is 77.10 from last year's Worlds. Not sure of his scores this season which has not been good for him.
    No matter what the rules say about keeping every scoring box and component isolated from all the others, I still think that a program marred with falls does not have the same impact with respect to P&E, CH and IND as one that is technically flawless.

    I would greatly fault a judging panel that reasoned, well, he spent most of the program on his backside, but he showed fine interpretation when he was upright.

  3. #63
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    sigh Mark Webster (AUS) just missed the cut..... GL to him and his dad ~~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I would greatly fault a judging panel that reasoned, well, he spent most of the program on his backside, but he showed fine interpretation when he was upright.
    Some skaters spend a lot more time on their back side than others. E.g. Oda spends time getting up and gets moving, often missing part or the subsequent element. Even Yuna was kind of dazed and slow getting back to her program at last Worlds, where she simply looked tired. Like it or not, Chan always springs right up without missing a beat. Not all interruptions are equal.

    I think Oda does get up faster when he falls on the quad, probably because of expectation and habit. An unexpected fall, OTOH, dazes him.

    I hate to talk falls when the competition is eminent. I want everybody to do their best. They all deserve to.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Some skaters spend a lot more time on their back side than others. E.g. Oda spends time getting up and gets moving, often missing part or the subsequent element. Even Yuna was kind of dazed and slow getting back to her program at last Worlds, where she simply looked tired. Like it or not, Chan always springs right up without missing a beat. Not all interruptions are equal.
    I think that was Joe's point, in part. A fall that causes a minor interruption in the program should result in somewhat lower program component scores. A fall that disrupts the program a lot should result in a significant reduction in PCSs.

    Example. I thought Ryan Bradley's P&E, CH and INT scores were too high at U.S. Nationals. Yes, he worked hard to ham-bone his way into the judges' good graces, but still, the disastrous start technically set the tone for the program, for me, and no amount of goofball antics later on could quite resurrect it. (JMO, of course).

    Where Joe and I disagree is on the Skating Skills and Transitions components. I am content to count these as "long elements" in the same category as the short elements like jumps and spins. So technical mistakes on a jump or spin should not necessarily impact the SS and Tr scores.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    Perhaps we souldn't be. His TES of 88, is just 1.43 shy of his very best recorded at TEB , where he had that slight 2 foot landing of his quad and everything else clean (included that 3a/2t/2l). For me, this skate was a confidence booster. Go Taka!
    1. I'm still rather annoyed at how the qualifying round is set up. If you have to use World rankings, I think another note should be added (for example, if you as a skater are in the top 18 in World Rankings, then you shoudn't have to do qualifying).

    2. Takahiko tends to peak early in competitions.

    3. Of the Japanese skaters, I'm most worried about his headspace. If you go back to my post in the "what do you want for the mens" you'll see a wanted Kozuka in second, so this isn't passive-agressiveness here, but how I honestly feel.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    1. I'm still rather annoyed at how the qualifying round is set up. If you have to use World rankings, I think another note should be added (for example, if you as a skater are in the top 18 in World Rankings, then you shoudn't have to do qualifying).

    2. Takahiko tends to peak early in competitions.

    3. Of the Japanese skaters, I'm most worried about his headspace. If you go back to my post in the "what do you want for the mens" you'll see a wanted Kozuka in second, so this isn't passive-agressiveness here, but how I honestly feel.
    I think that is a thing of the past. he used indeed to skate better in his SP, than in his LP, historically, but not as much this year. ( remember his last 2 events, both at the GPF and 4CC, he came from behind, after not as great SP. I think he matured as a competoitior, handling his nerves better.
    And I must say, i have not seen the same from Oda, who still hasn't passed his math from grade...2 (counting to 4)
    Last edited by herios; 04-25-2011 at 09:51 PM.

  8. #68
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    ^ i know some people that will go to men fs and are prepared to shout at him, NO MORE COMBOS

  9. #69
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    QR affects all other skaters more than it does Taka for whom it was an extra practice without any pressure at all. Others had to draw so much more from their mental and physical reserve to get through this round before gearing up for the next round of real competition.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibi24 View Post
    sigh Mark Webster (AUS) just missed the cut..... GL to him and his dad ~~
    bit of a shame, but Mark skated a PB, landed all his 3's ( fall on 3A) and did his best. The competition we better. He is extremely happy with his skate and feels he is improving each time he competes. Qualifying would have been great as he would have saved money on accommodation costs, as AUS skaters have to pay for all expenses to get to worlds.
    He will be back next year.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    1. I'm still rather annoyed at how the qualifying round is set up. If you have to use World rankings, I think another note should be added (for example, if you as a skater are in the top 18 in World Rankings, then you shoudn't have to do qualifying).
    The ISU can't have a rule like that, for the same reason that they cannot follow Hernando's suggestion to add extra top-ranked skaters to compete at Worlds. To the ISU there is no such person as Takahiko Kozuka. There is only "third-ranked Japanese male skater."

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by webbo View Post
    bit of a shame, but Mark skated a PB, landed all his 3's ( fall on 3A) and did his best. The competition we better. He is extremely happy with his skate and feels he is improving each time he competes. Qualifying would have been great as he would have saved money on accommodation costs, as AUS skaters have to pay for all expenses to get to worlds.
    He will be back next year.
    Way to go, Mark!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The ISU can't have a rule like that, for the same reason that they cannot follow Hernando's suggestion to add extra top-ranked skaters to compete at Worlds. To the ISU there is no such person as Takahiko Kozuka. There is only "third-ranked Japanese male skater."
    Who just happens to be their national champion, but never mind. The rule turns out to have stupid outcome, nonetheless, so I agree with IP. But i got over it a long time ago. I hope Koz will kick some major rear end comes this week end. He deserves it.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The ISU can't have a rule like that, for the same reason that they cannot follow Hernando's suggestion to add extra top-ranked skaters to compete at Worlds. To the ISU there is no such person as Takahiko Kozuka. There is only "third-ranked Japanese male skater."
    Sure they can.

    1. All skaters who ranked in the top 18 on the World rankings may bypass the qualification round and enter directly into the short program.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The ISU can't have a rule like that, for the same reason that they cannot follow Hernando's suggestion to add extra top-ranked skaters to compete at Worlds. To the ISU there is no such person as Takahiko Kozuka. There is only "third-ranked Japanese male skater."
    Well, did you know that had Weaver and Poje not bombed their FD at the 2011 4CC, they could improved their ISU World Ranking score to a point such that the ones who will be doing the Ice Dance QR for Canada would have been: Virtue/Moir

    What logic is there to make the reigning Olympic and World Champion do the QR round? This is how non-sensical the current QR is.

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