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Thread: Men's Short Program

  1. #646
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Does a skating program have to be about something? Can't it just be about skating?
    A skating program does not have to be about anything specifically, no. A program should definitely convey something, though, and fuse with the music in such a way that the performance takes on a life of its own. Patrick was trying to be hip and sexy in his program and it simply doesn't work on the level of what I would consider a lauded performer/artist to be able to represent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Are you saying that the tech specialists are not consistent in calling levels? So it is just a matter of whimsy whether someone gets a chance for extra high GOEs in this category?
    Partly, yes, but the rule itself is also wrong to begin with. Level 4 step sequences shouldn't get twice the GOE bonus of a Level 3 Step Sequence. One extra step can be the difference between a level; the entire footwork sequence shouldn't suddenly be worth double the GOE bonus because of it. Sometimes a Level 3 might actually be a harder piece of footwork than a Level 4 as well because of a specific series of turns/steps within the sequence being more difficult. If the the Level 3 footwork actually has more difficult steps/turns and is only missing some minor superfluous requirement that would have made it a Level 4, then it might very well be more difficult than another one which actually did get the Level 4 call.

    The "one half of the pattern executed on one foot" rule is also a REALLY dumb level feature this season. Or at least, it's not being judged correctly. Skaters will travel half the length of the rink on one foot and then switch to two feet for the other other half of the length. Therefore half of the pattern was executed on one foot, right? No, actually, not. When a skater is doing one-foot footwork they will tend to stay in a straight line because it is more difficult. As soon as they switch to two feet, though, the pattern suddenly starts zig-zagging around before reaching the other end of the rink. Resultingly, half of the pattern actually was NOT executed on one foot even if the length of the rink used for both parts was just about equal (the width was different).

    Step sequences need an overhaul in the way they are judged anyway. It should be minus GOE for significantly diverging from the specific pattern - Straight Line, Circular, or Serpentine - that the footwork is supposed to be. Nobody even does Serpentine footwork anymore because Straight Line footwork sequences have all basically just become messy, easier versions of Serpentine footwork. A skater should be moving continuously in the direction of the pattern and once you run of the ice, that's it. End of footwork sequence. If you want to try and include a million steps and turns to achieve a high CoP level, then you better do a Serpentine Pattern (or at least go diagonal down the ice in your Straightline or expand the oval of your Circular footwork) so that you have more space on the ice to attempt to execute those movements. Doing less complicated footwork and trying to execute it better (lower level, higher GOE) should be a perfectly viable strategy as well. Ditto for spins.

  2. #647
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Does a skating program have to be about something? Can't it just be about skating?
    I like Patrick's SP alot but for the way he skates to the music. I would never guess what the the storyline is on my own and don't think it adds anything important to the program. Is he supposed to get punched or something?

    That little spaz move he does is the only part of the program I don't like.

  3. #648
    Brazilian Eurotrash beep_beep's Avatar
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    After getting to watch the whole Men's SP on demand and HD (thank you, ISU Web TV, thank you ), here are some of my 2 cents worth of thought.

    Chan: wow! Always wanted to see a completely clean program of him, and I finally got it (the jumps matched the skating skills!!). I don't agree with the score being so far ahead of the rest, but I must admit he was really good tonight and a much, much deserving leader.

    Bradley: it missed the spark it had on US Nationals, I think the score could be a little higher, but we had a lot of great performances this year, so I guess the placement is correct

    Gachinsky: konspiracy!! how can a russian place so high without politiks?!! I wouldn't have him ahead of the 4th-7th pack (guess I'd put Amodio on 4th...), but all the skaters are so close in terms of points... He did land a 4-3, but then there was that hiccup on his fully rotaded and landed in one foot 3loop. I don't know, the interpretation is so random that I find it amusing. May be it's on such high level of arteestree that I just can't get :P

    Takahashi: love him, he's prefect. Sure, this is not his best program, but I'm choosing to close my ears and be in denial of any mistake he might have made *la la la la la la la...* But when it comes to owning the ice, no one comes near him these days. No one.

    Oda: my favourite SP this season (there, I said it), parachute pants and all. Good save on the first jumping pass, and then adding the combo later.

    Fernadez, Amodio: They're fabulous. Someone please get them away from The Slimey One, at least for choreo.

    Why can't Kozuka get the same skating skills love as Chan, Takahashi and Oda?? He's awsome on that department.

    Swedish boys

  4. #649
    Rooting for Adrian, Javi and Kevin R!!! :) aemeraldrainc's Avatar
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    Watching delayed broadcast on Universal Sports.
    Dornbush just began his program. Anyone else watching?

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    Hernando, I don't think the story is critical but it's a little fun, both for the skater and for some fans. The program starts when he notices a beautiful girl and he nudges his friends. Then he dances aound and jumps through hoops trying to impress the girl. At one point he puts his arms around two girls and gets punched by a boyfriend.

    There is a joy and youthful giddiness to the skate that fits the theme.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-27-2011 at 06:27 PM.

  6. #651
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    Just finished watching Takahashi. He had some very tight jumps and his spins were quite weak. Absolutely no comparison to Chan who held every spin to the max. There is the point difference there. If you wanted his points to be closer then he needed higher levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beep_beep View Post
    After getting to watch the whole Men's SP on demand and HD (thank you, ISU Web TV, thank you ), here are some of my 2 cents worth of thought.

    Chan: wow! Always wanted to see a completely clean program of him, and I finally got it (the jumps matched the skating skills!!). I don't agree with the score being so far ahead of the rest, but I must admit he was really good tonight and a much, much deserving leader.

    Bradley: it missed the spark it had on US Nationals, I think the score could be a little higher, but we had a lot of great performances this year, so I guess the placement is correct

    Gachinsky: konspiracy!! how can a russian place so high without politiks?!! I wouldn't have him ahead of the 4th-7th pack (guess I'd put Amodio on 4th...), but all the skaters are so close in terms of points... He did land a 4-3, but then there was that hiccup on his fully rotaded and landed in one foot 3loop. I don't know, the interpretation is so random that I find it amusing. May be it's on such high level of arteestree that I just can't get :P

    Takahashi: love him, he's prefect. Sure, this is not his best program, but I'm choosing to close my ears and be in denial of any mistake he might have made *la la la la la la la...* But when it comes to owning the ice, no one comes near him these days. No one.

    Oda: my favourite SP this season (there, I said it), parachute pants and all. Good save on the first jumping pass, and then adding the combo later.

    Fernadez, Amodio: They're fabulous. Someone please get them away from The Slimey One, at least for choreo.

    Why can't Kozuka get the same skating skills love as Chan, Takahashi and Oda?? He's awsome on that department.

    Swedish boys
    Haha if there were a like button on the forum for posts. I would totally like your post!! You summed up my thoughts on the men's SP. Especially about Takahashi. As much as I do not like Chan, I have to admit that his skate was much better than the rest of the men and he deserved to be first..

  8. #653
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    I thought Bradley looked a little out of shape: I don't recall his SP uniform being that tight at Nationals. And he was so terribly S-L-O-W. Sure, he landed his jumps in the SP, but he muscled them through; his spins and footwork were lethargic. Getting through the FS is going to take a lot more energy than he showed in the SP. Makes me wonder if he will drop a few places after the FS.

  9. #654
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beep_beep View Post
    **
    Off topic, but what does your avatar represent? I'm getting a square flying saucer sailing over a stone wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring
    The program starts when he notices a beautiful girl and he nudges his friends. Then he dances aound and jumps through hoops trying to impress the girl. At one point he puts his arms around two girls and gets punched by a boyfriend.
    To me, he could have left off the friend-nudging, girl-hugging and face-punching, and just skated.

    Edited to add: You know what would be a great program for Patrick? "I can do this, I can do that" from Chorus Line.
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-27-2011 at 06:49 PM.

  10. #655
    Brazilian Eurotrash beep_beep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Off topic, but what does your avatar represent? I'm getting a square flying saucer sailing over a stone wall?

    It's a photo on a dock on my city's river taken years ago with my old cell phone's cr*ppy VGA camera. Add sun glare into it, and voilà!
    I've set my user to be always online when I enter GS, so I completely forgot it was still there

  11. #656
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beep_beep View Post

    It's a photo on a dock on my city's river taken years ago with my old cell phone's cr*ppy VGA camera. Add sun glare into it, and voilà!
    I've set my user to be always online when I enter GS, so I completely forgot it was still there
    I thought it was an alien spaceship, the one that dropped of Ronaldinho at Gremio years ago.

  12. #657
    Brazilian Eurotrash beep_beep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    I thought it was an alien spaceship, the one that dropped of Ronaldinho at Gremio years ago.
    The same one that dropped that greedy brother/manager of his along?
    He's an awsome player, but he's definetively persona non grata around here these days...
    (Can you tell I'm a p*ssed off Grêmio supporter ?? )

    Now, back to skating.

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    There is something I feel about Takahashi's skating for a long time but I just dare not spill out. But wth, somebody can beat me to death? Here it goes: I feel that Takahashi does not have good lines, his way of stroking, especially before a jump is kind of wrapped/crooked, and his arm movements are usually wild. I think he should thank Morozov(?) forever for finding the right vehicle for him, the mad swan style. Ever since his dramatic take of skating camouflaged all his weaknesses and even turned them into good thing. I'd say that the extreme madness of his skating kinda turns into greatness. This could be something we never saw before and will never see again in the future. IMO it is his quick feet and drama that make him great in his own way.
    Talking about Chan and Takarashi, they are apple and orange. I bet Chan would never be able to diliver the drama and that kind of excitement Takarashi did, and Takarashi can't really show the same kind of pure skating Chan delivered, at least he hasn't yet.
    I watched one clip about Takarashhi learn to dance (with a ballet dancer), and it was really funny that he simply couldn't open his shoulder and chest

    Anyway, I watched their SP again and also the protocols, Chan did deserve the margin of lead he got, well deserved. I agree with Serious Business's comment about performance. Performance does not equal to drama. Drama can contribute to good performance when it is called for but it is not the only thing in the concept of performance of COP. Lyrical music, jazz, blues and Latin music call for different kind of performance, as long as the skater interprete the music appropriately, they should get good performance score.
    Just my 2 cents.

  14. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I thought Bradley looked a little out of shape: I don't recall his SP uniform being that tight at Nationals. And he was so terribly S-L-O-W. Sure, he landed his jumps in the SP, but he muscled them through; his spins and footwork were lethargic. Getting through the FS is going to take a lot more energy than he showed in the SP. Makes me wonder if he will drop a few places after the FS.
    I adjusted my computer resolution after watching Bradley's program, only found out that the next skater looked tooo thin and had to adjust the resolution again

  15. #660
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    But the real problem is that this program is about Patrick Chan trying to pick up a girl at a bar. He does not give off that kind of swagger but rather seems like a middle school student playing during recess at school. He doesn't have deep gravitas in his skating either, which then makes programs like Phantom of the Opera have a certain triteness.
    LOL

    OMG, I agree with the recess thing (please, no Rated R thoughts!) But...I actually thought it was supposed to be themed that way...a guy just strolling down the street having a good day.

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