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Thread: Men's LP

  1. #841
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    I love Dai and Takahiko.

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Art&Sport failed to realize Kozuka not only didn't have a Quad in his SP, he also erred on his Triple Axel. These two added together give Chan already a 10 points advantage on the Technical mark and we haven't even counted the Components side from the SP yet. When you add things up, I think Art&Sport forgot to take out a calculator and count before using the overly abused word of "ridiculous" = "when something doesn't go my way, it must be wrong".
    "My way" has nothing to do with this discussion. My opinion does. What you fail to realize is that I'm not saying Kozuka's marks should have been higher, just that IMO, Patrick was very generously scored in the sp. Sure, he deserved to win. I don't like the CoP scoring system for a lot of reasons. If you do, enjoy! LOL, re "take out a calculator." I don't need a calculator to watch figure skating, nor to discuss my opinions about the sport. If you do, then I think that speaks for itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Congrats to Patrick Chan for smashing three world records!!! It's amazing that all people could see is that, he's over marked. That, to me, is very insulting. Give credit where credit's due.
    You get insulted easily, in that case. So much so, you don't seem to see when credit has been fairly given to Chan for his superb skating in Moscow. Lots of posters here, including me, have given credit to Chan (the judges have also given him more than enough credit), but that doesn't mean he or the scoring system are perfect. If you are in love with Chan and his skating, or you are caught up by numbers and world record breaking achievements, be happy and enjoy your nirvana, without expecting everyone to feel the same way you do.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 04-28-2011 at 07:27 PM.

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shlepa View Post
    Well, there are too many "hungry old men" who want to compete: Plush, Joubert, Dai... Why not, I think they all still have something to show
    This sounds so funny! Thanks for the laugh!

  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Can someone explain why Gachinski´s SS and TR scores can be even higher than Denis Ten's? Even Tracy Wilson commented that Gachinski was slow in between jumps.
    I think it was because he was in the last group. Judges just don't think they can be an 7 on one thing and a 4 on another! If you are 7 in one thing you are 7 in all things. If you are 8 all 8 - 9 all 9. It's only in rare cases and a very famous or infamous case did a skater get 8's in some PCS and 5 in another. You know the case and everything. It got so tiresome! Plus the definte hometown bonus-or country Bonus.

  5. #845
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    Just watched Kozuka and if there is a big difference between him and Chan on PCS then there should be an even bigger difference between Kozuka and Gashinkski. A 5 point difference is not enough.

  6. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Thanks!

    Love this LP! Kozuka is the most handsome Japanese male skater I've ever seen. Cute face and beautifully proportioned body. Long-lined, lyrical style. He may not have the excitement of Chan's program, but his is the one that could calm you down and take you to a fairy land.
    ITA. Kozuka, Abbot, Chan, these are the three that has great skating skills and superb edge quality. In my opinion, Chan's natural musicality is the weaker one among these three but he has good choreograph that helps him to overcome that. Abbot has good programs too but his consistensy is a problem, needs mental strength to step up. Kozuka has understated elegance but when it is understated, it is really difficult to shine through the crowded field. I think Kozuka need to have better costumes to show off body lines and he still does need work on extentions ( take ballet) to extend his lines further. He is very good already but he could be so much better. He is one of the Japanese skater that can really work on classical style and be good at it, just one more step further from being lyrical. I think Hanyu is another, with extremely long lines and great musicality. So happy Kozuka stepped up and got the silver, very beautiful skate, perfection.
    Chan did great, so did Kozuka. These two should be really proud of themselves and looking forward to more to come.

  7. #847
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    Just watching Amodio. Sorry that is not choreography..disgusting IMHO. He could be a great skater and to have him stand for 30 seconds is awful.

  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Art&Sport failed to realize Kozuka not only didn't have a Quad in his SP, he also erred on his Triple Axel. These two added together give Chan already a 10 points advantage on the Technical mark and we haven't even counted the Components side from the SP yet. When you add things up, I think Art&Sport forgot to take out a calculator and count before using the overly abused word of "ridiculous" = "when something doesn't go my way, it must be wrong".
    Chan deserved to win by a HUGE margin no doubt. But I think its PERFECTLY fair to call into question, Patrick's 9 point PCS lead over Kozuka in the free skate. I don't think thats fair. Its more about the judges giving Kozuka credit for Kozuka's skills rather than rallying against Chan.

    The fact that the difference between Artur and Kozuka was 5 points only illustrates it. This. I'm sorry but skating skills wise, Kozuka/Chan are far more closer together than Kozuka and Artur are.

    It feels like Chan and Chan alone gets credit for having amazing skating skills. If they want to give Patrick huge credit for his skating skills-well fine. But also give others like Taka credit too. Its only fair.
    Last edited by bekalc; 04-28-2011 at 08:14 PM.

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Chan deserved to win by a HUGE margin no doubt. But I think its PERFECTLY fair to call into question, Patrick's 9 point PCS lead over Kozuka in the free skate. I don't think thats fair. Its more about the judges giving Kozuka credit for Kozuka's skills rather than rallying against Chan.
    So what do you think of Kozuka's TR, PE, CH and IN vs. Chan's in the LP? Assuming they are fairly comparable in SS, let's dissect the other 4 components. So, I am interested to hear how you break down the other 4 components to support your claim that the 9 points overall lead in PCS is too large given that your comment did not address these aspects that are also part of the consideration. Care to take us through your thought process?

  10. #850
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    PCS was ridiculous. A bigger gap between Kozuka and Gashinski than Chan and Kozuka is ridiculous. Kozuka should have been quite close to Chan in PCS, and Gashinski nowhere near Kozuka.

  11. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    So what do you think of Kozuka's TR, PE, CH and IN vs. Chan's in the LP? Assuming they are fairly comparable in SS, let's dissect the other 4 components. So, I am interested to hear how you break down the other 4 components to support your claim that the 9 points overall lead in PCS is too large given that your comment did not address these aspects that are also part of the consideration. Care to take us through your thought process?
    Well one thing I will clearly state is Kozuka deserves higher Interpertation scores than Chan does. Because Kozuka is by far more musical.

  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Well one thing I will clearly state is Kozuka deserves higher Interpertation scores than Chan does. Because Kozuka is by far more musical.
    Your answer is unsatisfactory because it's a personal statement of preference with no evidence to back up your claim. I can't see your thought process at all. How do you show Kozuka is more musical and why does that impact IN? You need to do a lot better than that to convince anyone that your original claim re: 9 points gap is valid as opposed to just whining.

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Your answer is unsatisfactory because it's a personal statement of preference with no evidence to back up your claim. I can't see your thought process at all. How do you show Kozuka is more musical and why does that impact IN? You need to do a lot better than that to convince anyone that your original claim re: 9 points gap is valid as opposed to just whining.
    Do we really need to get into it how Patrick can skate through the music a bit. Its not just me Wally saying it, its plenty of people who have said it. Kozuka is more musical.

  14. #854
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    I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure Kozuka got the second highest PCS ever awarded in figure skating. The people who want it higher do so because they want it to be closer to Chan's, so it is about Chan as always (it's a Chan's world, baby). That is a perfectly fair point to raise, as the PCS are worded as being comparative in some ISU rules and memos. But let's be honest that it isn't about Kozuka alone for people who thinks his PCS should be even higher.

    I disagree. While Kozuka has exceptional basics and skated a very intricate program with unusual command, he's still not on Chan's level in either ice command or the intricacy of the program. Don't get me wrong, they are both in the stratosphere, and unmatched by anyone else in this competition, but it is necessary to compare them for the discussion at hand.

    Then there are parts of Kozuka's presentation I find to be outright below par. His movement is very reserved. Most of his movement stays close to the core, even if he extends his arms he keeps them close to the body. And if he's not extending them, the arms just look limp. And with this desire to contract his body, even his flourishes look hesitant, unexpansive. It really detracts from a dancer's ability to fully express movement, emotion and music.

    Of course, this is just one little con among the many pros of Kozuka's skating, but it's one that affects a few of the PCS criteria, and when we're in the super nitpickery stage of exactly how superhumanly high his PCS should be, it's relevant. Therefore, I'm perfectly fine with him having the second highest PCS ever for his performance here. Truly a horrible shame, but I'm sure he'll recover.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Your answer is unsatisfactory because it's a personal statement of preference with no evidence to back up your claim. I can't see your thought process at all. How do you show Kozuka is more musical and why does that impact IN? You need to do a lot better than that to convince anyone that your original claim re: 9 points gap is valid as opposed to just whining.
    Just curious, would you mind showing your thought process in determining that Chan is more musical than Kozuka?

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